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Talk:Up The Long Ladder (episode)

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Title sourceEdit

Not sure how this might fit in, or if it should fit in, but the episode's title derives from an expression - "up the long ladder and down the short rope" - which is a reference to the gallows well popularised by the Tommy Makem song, "Are You Ready for a War?". --Fenian 09:20, 15 Oct 2005 (UTC)

  • That would typically be something placed in the "Background" section, I believe. --Alan del Beccio 17:49, 15 Oct 2005 (UTC)
  • I also speculate that this title is a play on words to suggest Up the long ladder of a DNA chain in reference to the clones.--jason3fc (talk) 02:55, June 21, 2013 (UTC)
    • That's nice, but speculation isn't what these articles are for. Unless there's a source saying that this was an intentional decision it should be removed. The same actually also applies to the original claim which is also not cited. For now, as the original claim seems very likely (to me) I'm going to flag it as needing a citation, and remove the second claim. Nixel uk (talk) 20:55, February 19, 2014 (UTC)

Bad subtitles?Edit

There's a line in the episode - "Now that's what I call a wee drop of the creature!" - that I feel to be incorrectly subtitled on the DVD. "Creature" is a phonetic interpretation of the word 'craythur,' a Gaelic word for 'poteen', or alcohol. What would be the proper way to note this bit of trivia?

Eddie Murphy? Edit

Call me crazy, but the black clone looks a lot like Eddie Murphy, yet I can find no references to this on IMDB, this site, Wikipedia, or the credits to the episode. What do you all think?

It wasn't Eddie Murphy. Trust me. ;) --From Andoria with Love 04:50, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
I just watched this episode and I think this character most definitely is Eddie Murphy, or his exact double - The preceding unsigned comment was added by 99.224.230.117 (talk).

I also just watched this & immediately thought it was Murphy too. Still do. AvatarArt 08:08, January 23, 2010 (UTC)AvatarArt, Rochester, NY

Ditto, there is a striking resemblance! 74.196.84.183 03:46, July 30, 2010 (UTC)
It is Eddie Murphy. At least according to MovieWeb's cast listing for the episode and Murphy's casting credits. --178.75.136.201 08:53, March 22, 2013 (UTC)
No, as the article states, the clones were played by the Weaver triplets. Movieweb is wrong. --Jörg (talk) 10:25, March 22, 2013 (UTC)
There is a resemblance, but it clearly is not Murphy. If it had been, I think that information would have been here a long time ago. I think the only association Murphy has with Star Trek is that he was close to being in Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home as described here. 31dot (talk) 22:13, March 22, 2013 (UTC)

Okudagram Nitpicks Edit

You know, I'm definitely a Trekkie when it comes to Star Trek trivia, but even I think the "Okudagram issues" section is insanely pedantic. Wouldn't it be sufficient to say "the Okudagram displayed on Picard's console doesn't match the words spoken in dialogue?" Attempting to determine some sort of in-universe answer for how Riker and Picard could know all of these things that aren't listed in the graphic seems a little overboard to me. Gregly 18:12, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Removed it, MA isn't here to catalog nitpicks. Here it is for the record:--31dot 01:31, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Okudagram issuesEdit

  • The okudagrams in this episode do not follow the dialogue accurately. In the first okudagram seen in the teaser, Captain Picard requests the computer to identify all ships which used an unique distress beacon between 2123 and 2190 that traveled to or near the Ficus sector.
    • If so, then why did the computer list missions which occurred in the twenty or so years before 2123?
    • Secondly, how is Commander Riker able to identify the destination of the starships when, save for the case of two planets, there is no destination listed?
    • Thirdly, the okudagram reprinted in Star Trek: The Next Generation - The Continuing Mission has been revised. The first line, as seen in the episode, reads "Search Parameters Interstellar Expeditions to Sectors 184/02 to 185/38." The revised line reads "Search Parameters Interstellar Expeditions to Ficus Sector".
  • In the second and third okudagrams, how is Captain Picard able to know where the SS Mariposa traveled to when the ship's mission is described simply as Colonization. Additionally, Picard reads that the starship is loaded with supplies on November 27, 2123. However, the okudagram reads Launch Date. Could the ship be loaded and launched on the same date?

Nitpick Edit

  • There is a discrepancy in the dating. According to several characters, the SS Mariposa, launched from Earth on 27 November 2123, landed at the planets Mariposa and Bringloid 300 years before 2365, or 2065. There is no way that the Enterprise could assume the Bringloidi have been isolated for more than about 230 years, which is itself sufficiently long for generations to be born unaware of advanced technologies. Only the Mariposans had the sophistication to suspect any accidental time regression during the flight.

Removed nitpick. — Morder 07:43, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

Title capitalization and linking Edit

I don't know how this episode's title is written on-screen, but by the usual rules of English capitalization the title should be written "Up the Long Ladder". There's a helpful redirect for that, but if you type {{e|Up the Long Ladder}} you get a redlink. I don't know enough about the eplink template — can redirects be created for that as well, or do you just need to type it as the wiki page is named? —Josiah Rowe 06:52, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

Removed quotes Edit

Removed the following exchanges:

"There it is: SS Mariposa, loaded 27th of November 2123. Destination: Ficus Sector. Captain Walter Granger commanding."
"'Mariposa', the Spanish word for 'butterfly'."
"Thank you Data."
"I thought it might be significant, sir."
"Doesn't appear to be, Data."
"No sir."

- Picard and Data


"If this is going to work, these people will need your strength, your guidance."
"Oh, damn!... What is he doing again?"
"Prime Minister."
"Mmm. Sounds important!"
"Oh, it is!"
"So he might have more than two coins to rub together... Three husbands?"
"Uh huh!"

- Picard and Brenna Odell

--31dot 20:05, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

Removed nitpick Edit

The Starfleet crew has strong objections to being cloned in this episode, a strong contrast to the Star Trek: Voyager episode "Demon", where the crew allows themselves to be duplicated by a bio-mimetic fluid.

Different people, different reactions. --31dot 19:47, September 23, 2009 (UTC)

Maybe there's a different way to word this following statement, but it seems to me we should only note supposed "irony" when there is documentation of a deliberate attempt to draw irony between the two episodes.

William Riker gives a speech in this episode in which he says that, "One William Riker is unique, perhaps even special. But a hundred of him? A thousand of him? Diminishes me in ways I can't even imagine." This statement is ironic in that years later he will find that there is a duplicate of him (Thomas Riker).
  • Given Odo's statement in "A Man Alone" that "killing your own clone is still murder," it is possible that Riker's actions could have potentially gotten him into legal trouble. However, it may be that killing a non-sentient clone is not murder, or that Odo was referring to a provision of Bajoran law that did not exist in The Federation. Coincidentally, "A Man Alone" is another episode to reference the Alderaan spaceport (see above).

Removed as a nitpick that explains itself away.--31dot 00:24, April 21, 2010 (UTC)

I would just mention the clones in Voyager briefly, just to point out that it isn't a universal Starfleet belief of not wanting clones. —Commodore Sixty-Four(TALK) 10:29, May 19, 2011 (UTC)

If that needs to be done, it doesn't need to be done here, but on the clones article.--31dot 10:39, May 19, 2011 (UTC)

Cloning Causalties Edit

When the SS Mariposa crashed and the survivors began to clone themselve,couldn't they also create clones of the deceased crew of the Mariposa ? 80.254.146.140 14:05, June 27, 2011 (UTC)

It was said they died when the hull was breached, maybe they were incinerated or otherwise vaporized. This isn't really the place to discuss issues with the plot- article talk pages are for discussing changes to the article. The Reference Desk can be used for other questions.--31dot 14:39, June 27, 2011 (UTC)

Didn't enterprise broke prime directive by contacting those people? Edit

I mean. They are humans but they are quite primitive and functiong as a society divided from Earth humans. So wouln't it be violation of prime directive to contact them before they achive warp travel? The preceding unsigned comment was added by 89.201.251.52 (talk).

The Prime Directive only applies to alien societies. The Bringloidi were Humans. Even if that didn't matter, they had knowledge of warp travel, since that's how they got there. They don't have to physically have a warp drive(much like the Baku in ST:Insurrection). 31dot (talk) 00:38, January 31, 2013 (UTC)

Genetic Base Edit

In the scene where Doctor Pulaski is explaining about the Mariposans & Bringloidis interbreeding, she mentions something about a genetic base. I think it was "30 couples are needed for a genetic base, but the broader the base the healthier the society" or something like that. So exactly what is a genetic base ? 194.74.238.137 11:24, May 7, 2013 (UTC)

She is basically referring to the gene pool; the larger the pool, the healthier the genes are for everyone. 31dot (talk) 13:30, May 7, 2013 (UTC)

Would 60 people be enough for a healthy gene pool, even with the women having 3 children with 3 different husbands ? 194.74.238.137 11:01, May 10, 2013 (UTC)

Pulaski seemed to think so; I cannot say if it is or not as I'm not a scientist. :) 31dot (talk) 11:17, May 10, 2013 (UTC)

Aldebaran, not Alderaan Edit

There isn't actually a star wars reference in the okudagram that Picard and Riker view in the beginning. The display shows "Diplomatic mission to Aldebaran". Aldebaran is a real star.

On the row beneath it however is a reference to The Adventures of Buckaroo Banzai Across the 8th Dimension.

I saw this in the blu-ray version, I'm not sure if these things have changed from the original...

--217.211.179.82 22:12, May 24, 2013 (UTC)

Mariposan Population Edit

There was a scene where Mariposan prime minister Wilson Granger says something like "There are only five of us" which I know means the entire Mariposan population are clones of five people. But I was thinking, was it mentioned either in that same scene or somewhere else in that episode about how many Mariposans there are in total ? For example where there 5 million Mariposans on the planet or 20 million ? 194.74.238.137 11:00, June 10, 2013 (UTC)

There was no mention made of the specific number of people; Pulaski made a reference to a "planet complete with cities" so we do know they have enough people for a few cities. Cities, though, can range in population; where I live there are municipalities which call themselves cities with only 1500 people. 31dot (talk) 11:14, June 10, 2013 (UTC)

Multiple Partners Edit

In the main article for this episode [1], it says something like "both polygamy and polyandry will be permitted and encouraged for several generations (each person would take 3 spouses)". But didn't Doctor Katherine Pulaski say in the episode something like "Every woman, both Bringloidi & Mariposan, will need to have 3 children by 3 different men", or something like that. 194.74.238.137 12:09, June 13, 2013 (UTC)

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