I don't think the Bozeman-A would have been a Sovereign Class....seeing as Geordi stated the Enterprise was the most advanced Starship in the fleet of the time
besides, the novel simply stated the new NCC-1941-A was a destroyer, there was no mention of the class designation. someone made that up. --Captain Mike K. Bartel 14:44, 15 Jul 2004 (CEST)
- I'll check the book later, but I'm 99% certain it was explicitly stated by to be a Sovereign class starship. --Steve 17:27, 15 Jul 2004 (CEST)
- Just checked-- indeed, there seems not to be a direct reference, though Bateson's comments on page 111 (paperback) seem to strongly imply the Roderick (which is the Bozeman II by the end of the novel) is Sovereign class. --Steve 03:14, 16 Jul 2004 (CEST)
Could you perhaps clue us in to these supposed implications? --Captain Mike K. Bartel
- I haven't read the book for a while, but I believe Bateson refers to the Roderick being in an adjacent dock, and having problems with some systems that had been sorted on the E-E. -- Michael Warren 11:50, 16 Jul 2004 (CEST)
- Indeed, that's basically it. --Steve 16:42, 16 Jul 2004 (CEST)
Yes, it was. I'll just add a small note. -- Redge 19:02, 29 Jul 2004 (CEST)
- Corrected spelling of 'causality' and linked 'temporal causality loop' to corresponding article. -- Steavis
`Ship of the Line' by Dianne Carey, Boseman is referred to as `Soyus class'. Soyus is a refit of the `reliant class' of which no other mention is made. One would presume the reliant is a refit of the `Miranda Class' of which the Reliant belonged.
- "She was subsequently recertified for Starfleet service."
i think this is a speculation. why should starfleet use a retired ship class? the ships in "all good think", "generations" and "first contact" could be new. this article should be verbalized more neutral--Shisma 13:07, 10 February 2006 (UTC)
- Starfleet appears to continuously use old/retired ship classes, for example the Oberth-class and Miranda-class are continuously shown in Deep Space Nine. If Star Trek: First Contact, we hear the following phrases:
- Officer: Defiant and Bozeman, fall back to position one
- Bateson: Acknowledged
- From what I have seen, it's rare for a Captain to receive a ship twice with the same name (minus Kirk and Picard). If Captain Bateson is heard on the Bozeman in First Contact, it's quite likely they reconstituted the one Soyuz class into the fleet. Can't forget the fact that the Soyuz appears to be an uprated Miranda variant, which, if they still have Mirandas in the fleet, shows that there's no reason to retire it, especially since it's fresh from the past ;) - Adm. Enzo Aquarius 13:17, 10 February 2006 (UTC)
it was never mentioned that the Oberth and Miranda-Class officaly retired. maybe this is an established Design. but the Soyuz class definitly fall out of service. siscos ship "it's rare for a Captain to receive a ship twice with the same name (minus Kirk and Picard)" +Sisko. and do we know that the commander of the firstcontact-bozeman is Bateson? --Shisma 13:36, 10 February 2006 (UTC)
- It does not seem very rare to me, that's three out of five series. :P Jaf 15:38, 10 February 2006 (UTC)Jaf
- We do know that the First Contact Bozeman is controlled by Bateson as one can hear Bateson voiced by Kelsey Grammar say "Acknowledged" (his voice is quite apparent by it's deepness). Additionally, the Bozeman was supposed to have only been three weeks out of Starbase, which may conclude that it had recently (in it's time) entered service. Even though the ship was stuck in a loop for so many years, it's state would be fairly new due to the loop. Why retire a ship in a condition like that? ;) - Adm. Enzo Aquarius 21:20, 10 February 2006 (UTC)
- The 'three weeks out of Starbase' remark may only suggest that the ship had been docked between missions, or something similar. It doesn't necessarily tell us that it was a new ship. Spatula 20:17, 26 March 2006 (UTC)
- Geordi : "Soyuz Class... they haven't been in service for over eighty years." why should starfleet take a whole series of starships out of service while other (maybe older ship classes, like the miranda) of this time are still working? this class must be a kind of handicap(maybe these mass of weapon systems, which we never seen on later ship classes). i think there are more than one starship bozeman, --Shisma 18:55, 11 February 2006 (UTC)
- This is the trouble with trying to stick to some sort of canon, when the canon itself lacks internal consistency. If we had some decent, consistent precedents to work from (preferably with far less time travel involved), we'd be better able to work out whether or not the original would have been retired. Now, unfortunately, we're pretty much forced to either debate this in circles forever, or widen our definition of canon to a potentially unreasonable point. This rant has very little to add to the conversation, but I do hope it helps put things in perspective for everyone. - Spatula 21:22, 27 March 2006 (UTC)
- I wonder if the second Miranda-Class starship that appears briefly in that scene to the lower left and fires a torpedo at the Borg cube is the Bozeman. While the Bozeman never appeared to have torpedo capabilities, that doesn't mean it didn't. --184.108.40.206 01:25, 24 September 2006 (UTC)
- I would say that it was probably the writer's intention that the Bozemans mentioned after C&E were the same ship. -- ACES HIGH 00:15, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
- Could the Bozeman not simply have been refitted to become a standard Miranda-class vessel? I don't see why all the Soyuz-class modifications couldn't be removed (and with them, the problems that led to the class's retirement decades before the similar Miranda). That way, the same Bozeman could have appeared in First Contact, but as a reworked Miranda, like the one we see near the Defiant. Even if the problems couldn't be fixed by removing the modifications and the Bozeman was due for scrapping, it could still have been used to defend Sector 001 - things were pretty desperate as Starfleet was using Oberth-class ships and the Millenium Falcon! You really have to be on the brink to use a ship from Star Wars.
- Named after Bozeman, Montana, the North American town where First Contact took place (although this fact had not yet been made canon when TNG: "Cause and Effect" was produced). Also coincidentally the birthplace of "Cause and Effect" script-writer Brannon Braga.
I seriously doubt that this is just a coincidence. LOL. Why are we pretending that it is such? Honestly, I'm surprised that First Contact Day isn't August 15, 2065, since that would be Braga's 100th Birthday. --Antodav 07:34, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
- It's not really pretending so much as playing around... using the term "coincidentally" in this case is meant as a joke. We know it wasn't really coincidental. One of the main goals at MA is to have fun and to sneak in humor wherever we can... Surak knows we could use some from time to time. Well, okay, maybe Surak wouldn't know that... in fact, he'd probably be against that, but... ah, you know what I'm saying. :-P --From Andoria with Love 07:56, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
- LOL I figured as much. I'm going to make a slight change though: adding commas, which I feel compounds the joke a little bit further while at the same time making it a bit clearer that it's not really a coincidence. --Antodav 17:32, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
Added some background info on the orgin of the register NCC-1941. Also it's been speculated amongst myself and other Star Trek fans that the Soyuz class was designed for ELINT (Electronic Intelligience) hence the extra sensors on the sides. Could be that the reason Starfleet kept the Bozeman around was maybe they had neglected construction on ships specifically designed for the ELINT role and had made up for that shortcoming by keeping it around after it was considered obsolete. Maybe in All Good Things it was used near the Neutral Zone to gather intelligience and listen on on Romulan communications. After all the US Navy in 1989 was forced to rely on 50 year old minesweepers that they had to pull out of the reserves to clear the Persian Gulf of mines. This was mainly in part that they neglected the importance and strategy of mine warfare and did not build any new ships specifically designed for the task of minesweeping. So possibly Starfleet did the same thing--NavyAO2(AW) 00:58, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
- Actor Kelsey Grammer, who played Captain Morgan Bateson in "Cause and Effect", was uncredited for the background comm chatter for the Starfleet battle scene in Star Trek: First Contact. It is unknown if it was the same Bozeman seen in "Cause and Effect", or if Bateson could have later commanded a vessel of the same name. Some fans have speculated that the Bozeman could have been converted to the standard Miranda-class design, however there is no evidence this is the case.
- It is also speculated that unnamed Miranda-class starships seen at the end of Star Trek Generations and in the battle in Star Trek: First Contact are in fact the Bozeman, suggesting that it had been refitted at some point between its reapparance and the events of the films.
- The Bozeman model may have been accidentally labelled with two different registry numbers. NCC-1941 can clearly be seen on the dorsal saucer, at the end of the episode, but screencaps seem to show a second number on the ventral saucer during the collision scenes, apparently NCC-1841. It is unclear whether this is true or not.
Contrary to what Enzo states above, there is absolutely no proof that that "acknowledged" was spoken by Kelsey Grammar, in fact, it is equally likely that it was Michael Dorn, who also had a very distinct voice, was on the other ship referenced, AND was already in the cast, which seems to bump the odds in his favor. But I guess I already addressed this on talk:Morgan Bateson where I stated:
- Although some fans claim to hear Captain Morgan Bateson and Uhura in the comm chatter, Ronald D. Moore has stated (AOL chat, 1997) "as far as I know there are NO "voice cameos" in this sequence."
This seems to me to be more definitive than "It sounded like him" or "I'm pretty sure it was his voice"; which of course is all speculation, unless someone can get a quote from Kelsey. Besides this article is about the ship, not the character.
And, Soyuz to Miranda conversion is speculated by whom? This was never confirmed by the production staff, and the fact that there are Mirandas there is not unusual, look how many were on DS9 fighting.
Also, unless we can confirm this, which I personally don't see in the caps I took, we really shouldn't take the idea too far. --Alan 03:50, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
Is this an assumption? Edit
The article opens with:
In 2278, three weeks out of starbase, the Bozeman encountered a temporal distortion and was transported forward in time to the year 2368.
- According to the script, Bateson said his ship was three weeks out of a starbase.--31dot 08:30, April 17, 2011 (UTC)
- I believe the Bozeman was in the time loop for 17.4 days the same as the Enterprise. The USS Bozeman encountered a temporal rift, and was flung into the future and collided with the Enterprise resulting in a Warp Core Breach on the latter vessel which caused the loop. The Bozeman was not caught in a loop for 80+ years. A true loop in time would not be affected by outside forces, and the Enterprise could not have entered a loop unique to the Bozeman at all. DFW333 (talk) 19:37, November 29, 2012 (UTC)