For general discussion on this episode, visit the DS9 forum at The Trek BBS.
Here are my suggestions for improving the use of images in this article, bearing in mind I've not seen this episode in its entirety before. Feel free to add comments below each bullet, especially if you think that the image does serve an important purpose. -- SmokeDetector47 // talk 18:15, 18 Aug 2005 (UTC)
- File:Miles_and_Keiko_awkward.jpg -- can be and is stated in the article through words, no real need to show what it looks like.
- File:File:Obrien spotlight.jpg and File:Makbar checkup.jpg -- seems to me that these images can be combined with focus on O'Brien's "checkup"... why not replace them with one showing the examination (which could then be reused on a page about the Cardassian judicial system)
- File:Keiko outraged.jpg -- reaction shot of Keiko. Does not show anything unique or otherwise needed to understand what's going on.
- File:Odo and Obrien.jpg -- we know what both characters look like; they're not doing anything special or in any special environment.
- File:Odo in court.jpg -- again, he's not doing anything specifically interesting or in an interesting location.
- File:Obrien in court.jpg -- same as previous two images and is also very similar to the first title image. Is there any way the above three images can be replaced with a wider view of the trial?
- I've edited the page to address your concerns, which were justified. I'll address each image:
- Miles and Keiko: Took it out and put in one of the voice recording taken by Boone; this can be used in an article (there's a dead link right now) on voiceprints for forgery and such.
- Obrien spotlight: I replaced it with a picture of the anonymous Cardassian interrogator, it includes the light that was shone on O'Brien so the title still fits.
- Makbar checkup: I kept it in, because with the new version showing them in his cell, I think it adds to the article when viewed alongside the new version of Obrien spotlight.
- Keiko outraged: Took out.
- Odo and Obrien: As you said, you haven't seen the episode. This was a key scene in the episode (I think) because Odo gained new insights about O'Brien and also see the quotes section for a quote between the two of them.
- Odo in court: Replaced with one called Cardassian courtroom, which shows the seating arrangement; it's as close to a holistic view as there is.
- Obrien in court: Removed from the article.
- Hopefully this is better, your suggestions did improve the article so I appreciate the specific input as opposed to a simple "Too many images" or something. :) --Schrei 02:45, 19 Aug 2005 (UTC)
Featured article discussionEdit
- Self nomination. I figure why not, since you guys liked the last one. --Schrei 07:59, 14 Aug 2005 (UTC)
- Support. You've definitely got my vote. An excellent summary on one of the more psychological episodes. I agree about the criticism over the deus ex machina-style ending though.--Scimitar 15:09, 14 Aug 2005 (UTC)
- Support, excellently written! — THOR 15:43, 14 Aug 2005 (UTC)
- Huge Support I agree just like the other one this is excelently written, organized, complete, and just great. You really have talent as a writer. I'll support anything you put up here if you keep this up. Also, you seem to be picking all my farvote episodes. Tobyk777 00:33, 15 Aug 2005 (UTC)
- Please dont support an article soley because it; A: contains one of you favorite episodes, B: is nominated or written by a favored community member. Judge each article on its own merit w/o putting personal beliefes into it. --Kahless 07:18, 16 Aug 2005 (UTC) This has been your favorite neighborhood Klingon
- Kahless is right - I think Garak once said "I find your blind adoration both flattering and disturbing." :) --Schrei 07:57, 16 Aug 2005 (UTC)
Mild oppose. While it seems as if the episode summary is extremely detailed and well-written, I'm still slightly weary of the image use, which is what doomed previous featured nominees like "Force of Nature", which is also very well-written but failed to become featured due to image use concerns (which were never really completely addressed to my satisfaction). I'll flag the images I think could probably be removed in the talk page; feel free to discuss or state why they should be kept or removed there. -- SmokeDetector47 // talk 18:01, 18 Aug 2005 (UTC)
- See talk page and article for my revisions. Like I said on the talk page, I really appreciate the specific feedback rather than simply opposing it for a general reason. --Schrei 02:51, 19 Aug 2005 (UTC)
- Support. Excellent summary, great pics. Great start for a new MemoryAlphan. - AJHalliwell 21:03, 19 Aug 2005 (UTC)
- Support - Tough Little Ship 21:17, 20 Aug 2005 (UTC)
Who played the Maquis member?Edit
Is the guy who played him an unknown performer? Or have we accidentally said that Julian Christopher played a Cardassian when he could have played the Maquis? -- Tough Little Ship 20:57, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
I don't know the actor who played the Maquis Member , but Julian Christopher appeared as the Cardassian Inquisitor ( and not only his voice) who stood in the shadow. a picture of Julian Christopher is here http://je83.kapsi.fi/smallville/?sivu=roolit/sivuroolit (scroll down the page).– Tom 21:15, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
Removed comment Edit
I removed the following as it has nothing to do with Star Trek or the episode in question (in other words, it's not background info pertaining to the episode, like it's supposed to be) and is also based on the beliefs/observations/determinations, etc. of an individual person. Hardly encyclopedic. --From Andoria with Love 16:19, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
- The episode focuses heavily on repressive and Orwellian aspects of the Cardassian criminal justice system, such as presumption of guilt, lack of habeas corpus, and lack of constitutional safeguards for the accused. Although the Cardassian legal system as depicted is probaby based on eastern-bloc Cold War systems, it is interesting to note that in the years since the episode was produced, the United States has at times adopted similar methods in its Global War on Terror.
Other removed comments:
Coincidence unless cited- The surface plot of this episode is very similar to Franz Kafka's 1926 novella The Trial, in which a man named Josef K. is arrested and tried for an unnamed crime. The main difference in this version is that O'Brien is informed of his charges during the proceedings.
Opinion/personal conclusion- One might wonder how a system of justice with so much potential for abuse could survive for hundreds of years as Makbar claims it has, but if prior episodes are any indication, other aspects of Cardassian society reflect a similar attitude. For example, The Never Ending Sacrifice, which tells of seven generations of a Cardassian family all living in servitude to the state, is "the finest Cardassian novel ever written" according to Garak.
We're not here to explain psychiatry- When O'Brien is subjected to extremely bright light in the darkened processing room, the Cardassians are employing a psychological tactic known as monopolization of perception. Often used in interrogations and brainwashing, the most common defense is for the captive to focus on something dear to him or her (in O'Brien's case, the Federation and Starfleet). This may be why O'Brien repeated his statement of identity several times despite his hopeless predicament.
Nitpick- The chair in which O'Brien is placed during his processing is conspicuously similar to those used at most dental offices.
Nitpick- O'Brien states that his position on DS9 is chief engineer, although it is chief of operations, which he repeatedly states later while he is processed.--31dot 22:52, 5 December 2008 (UTC)
I wanted to inquire about whether or not a Holo-cam, as the term is used in Act I of the episode, is one in the same as a Holo-imager. If they are, could the term "Holo-cam" in this article be linked to the Holo-imager article and that article be edited accordingly to incorporate "an also known as" in its introductory line? If they're not the same, why aren't there separate articles? --BloodMalice 01:04, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
- We have a redirect already for Holo-camera to Holo-imager. If they did just use "Holo-cam" in this ep, that could also redirect to Holo-imager. – Cleanse 01:15, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
Uncited comment Edit
I have removed the following comment, as it is speculation unless a citation can be found.
- Fritz Weaver's portrayal of Kovat is possibly a reference to a very similar character Weaver played in the Twilight Zone episode, The Obsolete Man. In it he played the Chancellor, the representative of an Orwellian State attempting to convince a man condemned to die for being a librarian to confess his crime into a camera for the public. --31dot 01:29, 12 April 2009 (UTC)
Removed a similar comment on this date.--31dot 20:37, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
Removed nitpick Edit
Kira says that O'Brien "has a wife and a five-year-old daughter". Keiko also states that this is their "first vacation without Molly in five years". Molly is actually only two and half years old, and the O'Briens are married for only three and half years at the time of this episode.
Copying the above nitpick to here after its removal by Joeloveland.--31dot 19:40, October 29, 2009 (UTC)
Thanks, I removed it. Joeloveland 13:39, October 30, 2009 (UTC)
In "Melora", they mention that the way Cardassians design the station is not conducive to the proper functioning of Federation anti-gravity technology, thus explaining Melora's chair using wheels and needing ramps. In the second scene of this episode, right before O'Brien runs into Boone, there is clearly an anti-gravity platform being used on the promenade. Is this a continuity error specifically, and should it be noted somewhere? Aisynia 02:15, May 26, 2010 (UTC)
- The promenade didn't feature the doorway steps you find in ops and other sections of the station. — Morder (talk) 02:21, May 26, 2010 (UTC)
- I took the "proper functioning" comment in Melora as, Federation anti-grav technology is incompatible with the material the station is made of - it had nothing to do with the doorway steps. A Bajoran was pushing that unit in this episode, so anti-grav tech from Bajor probably works just fine. Izkata 19:00, January 2, 2011 (UTC)