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Talk:Sub Rosa (episode)

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ScotchEdit

Someone made a recent addition to the background information in which Stewart said Maturin obviously wasn't "Scotch". However, didn't he actually say he obviously wasn't from Scotland? Is it also possible that he said he wasn't Scottish? Someone who has the ep needs to check up on this. --From Andoria with Love 22:59, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

The script says that Picard said Maturin was not from Scotland, but even final drafts of the scripts differ from what actually is in the show. --OuroborosCobra 00:21, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

I removed the following:

"As a citizen of the UK and of Scottish ancestry, he should know better to refer to Scots or Scottish people as "Scotch"."

"Whether the writers were ignorant of this or not is irrelevant as Stewart should have taken it upon himself to correct it."

Patrick Stewart is, like any other actor, paid to read the lines he is given. Since this was a Captain Picard line, it is nothing but a personal and inflammatory opinion to blame this misstatement on Stewart. I also changed the statement to reflect that it was a Picard line, not a Patrick Stewart line. Roundeyesamurai 08:02, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

I disagree. I believe Picard actually says that Maturin is not "Scots", a term that many people from Scotland prefer to the word "Scottish". So in this case, Picard is correct. Sam (Special:Contributions/84.92.246.225)
I just watched it, and it suuuuuuure sounds like Stewart said "Scots." I didn't have CC on, and don't have the DVD (though I consider CC on tv OR on dvds less than reliable). FWIW. Since we're unsure, perhaps we ought'a remove this? Kojiro Vance | Talk 21:27, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

RemovedEdit

I removed

  • Captain Picard makes a serious faux pas here as he points out that Maturin is obviously not "Scotch". The Scottish dislike the term Scotch when referring to the culture and consider it offensive.
It is possible the faux pas was intentional so as to emphasize the fact that Picard is of French ancestry, and therefore might not understand that Scots prefer not to be called Scotch.
  • During Picard's conversation with the Governor in the beginning of the episode, Troi can be seen walking in the background even though she supposedly left with Crusher. In the next cut, she's with the doctor in the Howard house.

The first is discussed above and what was said was "Scots"...and regardless, it's not as noteworthy as this discussion makes it sound. The latter ref is pure nitpickery. --Alan del Beccio 02:49, 2 March 2007 (UTC)


Also removed the following. Who is "certain fans"? If there is some official comments on this, a comment can be put back, but it is merely speculation until then.--31dot 11:31, October 21, 2009 (UTC)
Certain fans have pointed out the rather obvious plot hole of Ronin having affairs with all the Howard women through the generations. Either Beverly was the first Howard woman in centuries to change her last name when she got married, or incest reigns supreme in said family.

Howard familyEdit

Ronin says that he first fell for a woman with the last name Howard and then on through the generations. This would be impossible and family names, especially at the relevant time were passed by men. In order for Ronin to have had an affair with every Howard woman, each one would have to marry a man in the Howard line and have a son to carry on the name. This doesn't make sense, given that Beverly says that all the Howard women save for herself and her mother have green eyes. There would be no reason for unrelated women who marry into a family to have a common gene trait, like green eyes. I understand that pointing out the plot problems in this episode would be a full time job, but this one just really struck me is all. --Foofy Attorney 06:06, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps his affairs were with daughters sequentually born into the Howard family while on Earth, but their move off Earth precluded his seeking out a daughter from one of the other lines? Possibly a stretch, but the only other rational concept is that Jessel's last name was Howard only as a married name, and that Ronin often merged with Howard women after their husbands died...which raises the question of whether he's a kind of monster as well as ghost. Felisa's housekeeper certainly thought so, before he died as well. --ChrisK 00:35, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
The green eyes aren't a genetical trait but a side effect of merging with the green entity called Ronin. The preceding unsigned comment was added by 95.89.244.52 (talk).
Pointless nitpicking and has nothing to do with the article. — Morder 16:32, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

Stardate Edit

For what it's worth, StarTrek.com uses the exact same stardate for this and the previous episode, "Homeward": [X]wbm. I guess this might be an error on their part, and will change the stardate here to "Unknown" again. -- Cid Highwind 12:35, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

The Star Trek Chronology also gives the same stardate for both "Homeward" and "Sub Rosa". I think what may have happened here is one of three things:
  1. The Chronology made a mistake by copying the stardate from "Homeward" and adding it to the "Sub Rosa" entry (or vice-versa), and StarTrek.com and later Memory Alpha subsequently copied it;
  2. A stardate appeared on a graphic or some other items (like a gravestone) but was not actually spoken in dialogue; or
  3. The user watched an edited version of the episode on SpikeTV or some other channel which left out the stardate that would be available in the uncut episode.
So, someone needs to ask the user what version he watched (which I have already done); if he watched it on a TV station, then someone needs to check the uncut episode on DVD to see if a stardate is mentioned. --From Andoria with Love 21:09, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
I watched it yesterday when I added a bunch of references and updated some screencaps and there was no indication of a stardate in either the dialog or any on screen displays/references. --Alan del Beccio 23:25, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
Very well, then, it must be a mistake. In which case, the stardate should obviously stay out. Thanks, Alan. --From Andoria with Love 03:46, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
Yes I have watched the uncut DVD version, which contains no stardate. And indeed, the original mistake comes from Star Trek Chronology and StarTrek.com, then taken up everywhere, even in the menu sidebar of the official Paramount DVD edition ! Thank you Gvsualan for confirming my correction. --Yrad 04:43, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
On Netflix if you watch it with English subtitles at the end when Picard says "Captain's log supplemental" the captions say stardate 47488.2. Perhaps on DVD as well? Amazon doesn't let you turn subs on. The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.41.42.199 (talk).

Anne Rice Edit

I'm unable to find confirmation of a middle initial/name for her. Her official biography on her website does not state it nor does wikipedia so I'm going to remove the C until proven otherwise --Morder 14:35, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

Actually, her name is Howard Anne Rice. She dropped the Howard. I'm not sure were the C comes from. DhaliaUnsung 14:40, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

Ronin's NameEdit

The background section points out that "Ronin" is a Japanese word and that Brannon Braga was unaware of its meaning until after he wrote the episode. But "Ronan" is an Irish name, which would be a little more appropriate. Is the spelling of the name known for sure?Pooneil 18:36, January 17, 2012 (UTC)

Yes, it was Ronin. See the script. Also, the Star Trek: The Next Generation Companion explicitly states that Braga just made up the name.–Cleanse ( talk | contribs ) 01:03, January 18, 2012 (UTC)

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