Talk:Starfleet uniform (late 2360s-early 2370s)

Reason for uniform switches?

What is the canon reason for the consistant switching of styles of uniform, even on the same person, in say Star Trek Generations? – The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.127.140.209.

None has ever been given. -- Jaz ^talk 08:23, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

This is just Speculation but I personally think it's to do with the area the people are stationed in. The type A uniform was for personnel stationed inside federation territory, keeping the sleek military appearance. But the type B uniform was for personnel on the border, or outside the federation territory; giving a casual and friendly appearance to the federation that wouldn't unduly intimidate new races. DS9 was on the border of federation territory and Voyager(before ending up in the delta quadrant) was also outside federation territory to search for the marquis. Evidence for this is in DS9's "Homefront" and "Paradise Lost", Sisko is assigned to Earth security; inside the federation, so he wears the Type A uniform. Of course evidence against is in Voyager episode "Non Sequitur". Harry was assigned to earth, but wore the Type B uniform, as did his friend Lasca.--A Pickering 13:36, January 15, 2010 (UTC)

Speculation, but based on real life - When I was a kid, I spent many a summer day at a quasi-military country club in Virginia, where the 5th green is closer to the Pentagon than it is to the pro shop. On any given day, you might easily see 5 different officers from one branch in 5 different uniforms (and this included people with desk jobs in camo and flight suits - about the only thing I didn't see was Marine dress blues including the sword), depending on what their CO felt like, so I don't see any real inconsistency in the varying use - I think it's captain's discretion (regarding your "TNG home, DS9 away" theory, a lot of captains probably would think like that, though I doubt there's any explicit regulation). Personally, I think you could even go farther, and have specific department heads choose - I would see nothing wrong with, say, the bridge crew using the more formal TNG variant, while engineering wore the more casual, workmanlike DS9 type.--Ten-pint 15:28, January 15, 2010 (UTC)

There is canon support for this speculation. In "Chain of Command, Part I", Jellico did order Troi to wear a standard uniform while she was on duty, which she continued to do even after he left the ship. The Old Man 04:01, February 19, 2010 (UTC)

Another speculation is that these uniforms were being gradually introduced into starfleet which is why they were seen in some areas but not others. The uniform probably became starfleet standard until 2370 when the new uniform came out. Evidence to support the gradual introduction theory is that the crew of the Enterprise D were wearing the type B uniform in Star Trek Generations but when Worf appeared in DS9 "The Way of the Warrior" (timeline sets it after generations) he was still wearing the type A uniform.--A Pickering 17:02, January 15, 2010 (UTC)

The problem with that theory is that both uniform styles are seen in use at the same time right up until the introduction of the newer new uniforms in Star Trek: First Contact. We see them up until at least towards the end of season 4, in "Rules of Engagement", and then the new uniforms come in by early season 5 in "Rapture". That would mean they spent 5 years slowly transitioning to the Type B uniform, only to suddenly have the entirety of Starfleet go to the "First Contact" style all at once, with no transition, and no amount of time where everybody was using the Type B. What is far more likely, and actually fits the facts, is that both Type A and Type B were used at the same time, just for different uses. This entirely fits with how uniforms have worked in the modern armed forces. --OuroborosCobra ^talk 18:41, January 15, 2010 (UTC)

My theory is that the "First Contact" uniform is the NEW TYPE B uniform, replacing (all at once) the previous DS9 Type B uniform. The TNG Type A uniform actually continued in use. As recently as the DS9 season-six final episode "Tears of the Prophets", there are two admiral's aids in the battle briefing who wear TNG uniforms (not dress uniforms, but the standard Type A duty uniform). The Type A uniforms probably remain in use until the early 2390s, when they (and the "First Contact" Type B uniforms) are replaced by the "All Good Things . . . " uniform. That's why NOG (in the future of "The Visitor", wears a Type A uniform when most everyone else by that time wears the "First Contact" Type B. – The preceding unsigned comment was added by 99.88.155.143.

The type B seems to be just a uniform variant. Like the skant uniform of the past. A person would wear it depending on how they felt. This would explain why both uniforms were seen in Generations. Unfortunately it doesn't explain why it's the only uniform seen in DS9 and Voyager.--A Pickering 15:54, August 7, 2010 (UTC)

Combat uniforms in action

Combat?

The article currently states that the combat uniform has never been shown in action, but images for the operations gold male and female guards from the climax of the episode "Nor the Battle to the Strong" seem to contradict this claim. Also, there may have been scenes showing other Starfleet personnel on AR-558 in combat in the episode "The Siege of AR-558", but I'm not sure. - Intricated ^{talk page} 00:02, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Maternity uniforms

Shouldn't the maternity version of the uniform seen on Voyager be mentioned? – Sara marie 06:43, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

Starfleet Body Armor Suits

Federation ground troop

Will anyone explain or make a theory on why Starfleet officers do not have any form of body armor that will protect them against enemy weapons fire? I am aware of the TOS body armor but in TNG, DS9, VOY, and even the last 3 motion pictures, you would think that when combating enemies such as the Borg, there would be some kind of armor worn to protect one's self from being shot and injured. There have been innumerable times when we would all watch Starfleet officers go on very dangerous away missions without any kind of protection from the elements. VOY does a good job of offering the space suits for situations where one is absolutely and obviously necessary, but they aren't shielded for enemy fire (24th century bulletproof vests anyone??? Where are they?). Viaesta 01:29, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Starfleet is primarily intended for exploration and diplomacy. I think it is not in keeping with the (original) spirit of the franchise to put an emphasis on militarism, however unrealistic that may be. -- Connor Cabal 01:37, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Federation ground troops have been seen wearing a multi-layer uniform which, for all we know, is just that sort of armor. Remember though that the disruptors and phasers they go against are capable of destroying very large amount of solid rock and metal, there may not be a very good "body armor" available. --OuroborosCobra ^talk 01:50, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

By the way, more information on the uniforms can be found here and here, depending on what time period you are looking for. --OuroborosCobra ^talk 04:13, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

reason for restoring the top Janeway image

While not strictly necessary, it shows a comparison of two different uniform styles at top. In an article where an abundance of images is necessary to quickly compare and contrast the different styles, these two images of Star Trek series captains serves as the image complement of a short introductory lead. It also doesn't crowd anything because of the long Table of Contents to the left. Setacourse 16:58, December 8, 2009 (UTC)

Q Uniform switch in DS9 episode "Q-Less"

Please can someone mention in this article the DS9 episode "Q-Less"? where Q was seen wearing the TNG uniform but wanting to be up to date and fit in with the DS9 crew, switched to the newer DS9 uniform. - gohan 04:03, 9th December 2009 (GMT)

Actually he just said he liked the look of Sisko's uniform "I do like your tailor". So he did it on a whim. Since when does Q ever feel like fitting in? He does things because he feel like them.--A Pickering 17:06, January 15, 2010 (UTC)

Utility Jumpsuits section

I was reading in this article that under the Utility Jumpsuit section it mentions that the last time this variant is seen (before Nemesis) is in the Season 4 episode Galaxy's Child... I am currently in the middle of watching Season 5 and Data and La Forge both wear the Utility Jumpsuit in "Cost of Living" when they are looking for the cause of the systems failures in the Jeffries Tube. I'm not sure if this was the last appearance of the jumpsuit, but I know for sure that it was seen later in "Cost of Living". Can we get some confirmation on when the last time this jumpsuit was seen before Nemesis? I know that it's been in numerous episodes (sometimes just worn by extras). Why is Galaxy's Child cited as the source of information on this jumpsuit when it was seen much earlier? – The preceding unsigned comment was added by Mmmfloorpie (talk • contribs).

Special Operation Black

This is what the combat uniform is refered to in the book Battle for Betazed. Yes, they did make the "SOB's only" joke. --67.172.107.42 03:28, March 6, 2010 (UTC)--Crazy8

Security and operations different — really?

What's the basis for saying that security and operations wore different shades of yellow? Isn't it possible that any perceived difference merely came from the difference between "hero" costumes (designed to be worn by principal characters) and "background" costumes (more likely to be worn by supporting artists and background performers, which security officers are often played by)? There's a similar difference in the shades of blue worn by "lead" doctors and background nurses/medical techs in TNG. Do we really have a justification for the comment about security and operations wearing different shades of yellow? —Josiah Rowe 02:44, August 3, 2010 (UTC)

I agree. In fact, it almost sounds like fanon. -Angry Future Romulan 02:53, August 3, 2010 (UTC)

I removed the comment. I also think this is a case of hero uniforms vs. extra uniforms. Especially in Voyager, a lot of guards look rather orange, but Tuvok's uniform is the same colour as Harry's.– Cleanse ^{( talk | contribs )} 04:18, August 3, 2010 (UTC)

For the record, the note read:

"...although a slight difference in the tone of yellow used for operations and security is noticeable - security uses a more murky yellow while operations wear a shade of yellow that verges on orange. (DS9: "A Man Alone"; VOY: "Phage")

This is not very noticeable until Star Trek Generations.

– Cleanse ^{( talk | contribs )} 04:22, August 3, 2010 (UTC)

Thanks. Glad it wasn't just me that thought that was iffy. —Josiah Rowe 03:49, August 4, 2010 (UTC)

Overfull bginfo box

In the section on Type A standard duty uniforms, the bginfo box has more than 3 paragraphs, but only the first three paragraphs are visible since that's all that Template:bginfo supports. (The remaining paragraphs are visible only in source mode.) According to the bginfo template documentation, background information of more than 3 paragraphs should go in its own "Background Information" section. However, that's a little hard in this case, since the info refers specifically to the Type A standard duty uniform--not to the whole article, as it would down in the overall Background Info section. How should we handle this? I would personally be in favor of adding more paragraphs to the bginfo template's capabilities, but of course if anyone else has a better idea, as the Ferengi say, I'm all ears. :-) -Mdettweiler 05:13, August 3, 2010 (UTC)

You can cheat the template by using <br> in the two actual sections to create more, especially if the two notes are similar, as the spacing isn't quite the same. I wouldn't mind changing the template so more sections could be added, but I think there may be some push back on that. - Archduk3 05:29, August 3, 2010 (UTC)

Ah, I hadn't thought of that--thanks. I agree, it would be better to add more sections to the template--the <br> trick can make it look like the paragraphs are sort of running together. I'll bring it up on the template page. -Mdettweiler 03:40, August 4, 2010 (UTC)

Scrubs

I don't think the scrubs seen in "Nor the Battle to the Strong" are Starfleet. - Archduk3 11:06, September 1, 2010 (UTC)

Hmm... you're thinking they might be specific to the Ajilon Prime colony, or even that particular hospital? I suppose that's possible. I don't think the episode indicates either way — they could be Starfleet medical scrubs, or they could be something local. If you want to remove that addition, feel free. —Josiah Rowe 21:49, September 1, 2010 (UTC)

If we're not sure, a bg note stating that should be enough, since they could be Starfleet. I just remember the doctor's saying something that made it seem that they weren't in Starfleet. Should probably watch the episode again... - Archduk3 22:33, September 1, 2010 (UTC)

Me too... in the meanwhile, I put a bginfo note as suggested. Feel free to tweak as needed. —Josiah Rowe 00:54, September 2, 2010 (UTC)

New Top

Props to whoever added the Generations photo at the top showing the two styles together.--Ten-pint 02:32, September 2, 2010 (UTC)

Thanks. Too bad nurse Ogawa wasn't in that shot, since she seems to be wearing the only sciences blue, actually using the TNG blue instead of the DS9 "blue", Type B uniform on the whole ship. - Archduk3 11:59, September 2, 2010 (UTC)