29th century uniforms Edit
I agree with Thor. I would need more time than I have and would need to rewatch the episodes of Voyager with the alternate futures (there was more than one).--Lifeisharsh20 06:41, 19 January 2007 (UTC)Lifeisharsh20
Anti-time circa 2395~2422 uniforms Edit
I was wondering that since in all three series (TNG, DS9, VOY) that showed a "wrong" or alternative future have the same uniform style, if it could be assumed that none of their actions would affect Starfleet's uniform design? As in, if those uniforms would normally come anyway. Though I suppose since none of them were the "official" timeline of Star Trek, might as well assume the uniforms aren't official anyway until the writers decide it is. (Personally, I like those uniforms too, nice and colorful compared to the increasingly less colorfull uniforms from DS9 to Star Trek Nemesis, heh) --188.8.131.52 21:09, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
- I quite agree. They're consistent (across three different series - which seems to imply that the writers intentionally reused them as an accepted cannon for that time period). Also, none of the actions changing these alternate futures would have been of the kind that would have altered the development of the uniform. Don't the c. 2395-2422 uniforms deserve their own page?
- Heh, I was half-expecting no replies. After thinking of it for a bit, I'd personally keep it in the alternate timeline page until it is confirmed as the official timeline uniforms. It just might be as simple as re-using the uniforms whenever an alternative future is needed (Star Trek II uniforms were re-used in TNG as having been in use until 20 years before the show or even sooner; probably just because they didn't want to invent entirely new uniforms for those brief moments). Not to mention, having the TNG-style Admiral uniforms would have required them to revert the 2373 style uniforms (which is unlikely in my opinion). --184.108.40.206 22:02, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
Why are the 29th century uniforms considered "real" and yet the uniform first seen in TNG: "All Good Things..." isn't? All timelines after 2395 show that uniform at least until 2422, unless you are still on Voyager in the Delta Quadrant. - Archduk3 03:12, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
Starfleet uniform (29th century) Edit
Why is this considered a "real" uniform and yet the uniform first seen in TNG: "All Good Things..." isn't? All timelines after 2395 show that uniform at least until 2422, unless you are still on Voyager in the Delta Quadrant. - Archduk3 03:08, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
- Because all those timelines are explicitly reversed within the episode. We don't know for sure what a future uniform would look like when Benjamin Sisko didn't disappear in 2372/Deanna Troi never died in the 2370s/the Voyager returned in 2378. Heck, Voyager's early return might be the deciding factor in the uniform designs. The 29th century uniform, unlike the 2390s/2420s-style, is never identified as being in an alternate universe.--Tim Thomason 03:24, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
I have this going on both pages and in Ten Forward, but the not one timeline has shown a different uniform for this time, even the one where the Star Trek: First Contact uniform was never used. (DS9: "The Visitor") - Archduk3 03:33, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
- I'll reply here as well but next time keep your conversation in one place. The futures of all of star trek has been reversed or repaired and thus changed. No future is certain except those happening in the "present" of star trek and therefore no uniform will ever be finalized until that future becomes the present in the show. Anytime you see the future those uniforms aren't real since they're part of a future that may or may not ever actually happen due to the events in the show. — Morder 03:36, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
- I see what you're saying now - sorry, for some reason I read it differently (in relation to your forum post as well). Hmm...I'll have to watch this episode again to see what Tim is saying though based on what I remember he does seem correct. — Morder 04:03, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
I do agree with him as well, but since the 29th century uniforms is listed with the "real" uniforms, even though there is a clear difference between them the two times they are seen (VOY: "Future's End", "Future's End, Part II", "Relativity", suggesting that they are alt uniforms as well, and subject to being changed as the timeline is revealed. So this page should be merged with the alt uniforms page. - Archduk3 04:08, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
- Well, Daniels, Future Guy and the other players in the TCW seemed to be somewhat "shielded" from whatever damage the other player, respectively, did to their past - yet none of their timelines turned out to be Trek's main timeline, or did it?
- In any case, from a purely practical standpoint - if some new chapter of Trek eventually gets written and attached to the end of its "prime timeline", some time after Star Trek Nemesis, it stands to reason that continuity with the uniform of a time-travelling guy from some VOY episode will be the least concern. We shouldn't give that uniform any greater weight than any other from "the possible future". -- Cid Highwind 12:07, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
Shielded or not, this uniform is seen in only one episode, as the one seen in both Future's End episodes is clearly different (Since the 1st and 2nd seasons of TNG are not the one seen in the 3rd season onward), the slight color and collar differences have to make them different uniforms, and since they are suppose to be from the same time, on the same man, it seems that either the uniform was changed, or that some timeline changes have happened. Either way, one episode is not four, and that is how many support the "All Good Things..." uniform, even though they all "reset".
The point about the ENT TCW is also valid, there is no way to be sure about their uniforms, seen at least once in the season 2 opener I think, so the 29th Century is also suspect. - Archduk3 18:26, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
- I'm anti-merge. None of the stuff in All Good Things..., the Visitor, or Endgame have been proven. That's why it drives me nuts when people act like Crusher definitely became Captain of the Pasteur. We have concrete proof that this uniform existed in the prime timeline, it should stay. IT IS GREEN 23:27, December 5, 2009 (UTC)
What concrete proof? This uniform is only seen in one episode, since the "Future's End" uniform is different from this one; and the events seen in this episode involve paradox after paradox, until the whole episode is one giant paradox, which didn't even happen except in two people's memories. For all we know, the entire crew of the Relativity is as much a paradox as the ship itself, see: USS Relativity dedication plaque. - Archduk3:talk 08:29, December 6, 2009 (UTC)
Let's try this again, since the last time the discussion got bogged down in temporal mechanics. We have every real world reason to know these uniforms are a footnote if a Star Trek show is ever set in the 29th century, we know that between the two appearances of this style they did change, and we know that the USS Relativity, along with all of Starfleet, was wiped out because Daniels made a mistake in "Shockwave", suggesting that in universe these uniforms aren't set in stone either, nor is the future. Without getting bogged down with Star Trek temporal mechanics again, these uniforms shouldn't be treated as any more "real" or "permanent" than all the other future uniform information we have, and should be located in the same place. - Archduk3 11:52, August 3, 2011 (UTC)