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Talk:Starfleet insignia

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Moved from Vfd Edit

Nothing links to this, and it is a much less robust version of Assignment patch. Aholland 02:46, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

  • Keep. There are pages that do link to it and I believe the article could be expanded to remove the similarities between it and assignment patch. -- SmokeDetector47( TALK ) 03:25, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep. The article should probably explain the difference between the Starfleet insignia and an assignment patch -- one is the symbol for all of Starfleet, the other is a symbol for one group of personnel.
  • also, its fully possible to check Special:Whatlinkshere/Starfleet_insignia to see that one would be misrepresenting the situation saying "nothing links to it", so I'm not sure where you are going with that angle. Lack of links is not a valid grounds for deletion, neither is claiming so when it isn't true.-- Captain M.K.B. 04:38, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
  • Umm . . . Wow. I swear when I saw the article last night it was an orphan, with a big blank in the "What links here" page. It was also a much less robust article. I have no clue what I was looking at then. Please ignore the request; Starfleet insignia is a valid and comprehensive article and should be kept, without question. Aholland 17:25, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

Origin of arrowheadEdit

Can someone explain to me the real-life origin and design of the Starfleet insignia (arrowhead shape)? The preceding unsigned comment was added by 63.157.90.32 (talk).

Well, according to "Star Trek Sticker Book," it was designed in 1964 by William Ware Theiss when he designed the uniforms for TOS. It was aparently smaller in the first pilot, and bigger in the second-onwards. Mike Okuda's description of it in the same book is:
"A dramatic free-form arrowhead pointing symbolically upward to the heavens." (pg. 1)
And it goes on to say how in honor of the TOS Enterprise's famousness, Starfleet adopted it. - AJ Halliwell 08:16, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

I seem to recall reading somewhere long ago (circa 1970) that the arrowhead emblem was also influenced by some of the older starchart representations of the constellation Aquila, the Eagle. Can anyone else recall that bit of trivia?173.185.148.218 17:35, August 26, 2014 (UTC)

Edit

I'm curious as to why the Russian Federal Space Agency, in 1992, chose a variant of the Starfleet Insignia for their space program? Dsmith2

Is it really supposed to be the Starfleet insignia? People have made the same claims for the US Space Command, but with no evidence. Personally, I think it is supposed to be an arrow pointing to the heavens, with nothing to do with Trek. --OuroborosCobra talk 15:40, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
No, I would not write it off that easily. The similarity between the Star Trek: TNG Starfleet Insignia and the Russian Federal Space Agency of 1992-present is just too striking to be coincidental. Afterall TNG was in wrapping up its 5th season in '92 broadcast syndically worldwide. The design is hardly original and appears to be a close reproduction of the Star Trek TNG insignia. I'm suprised that VIACOM hasn't sued or attempted to sue the Russian government over trademark infringement, knowing how greedy and malevolent VIACOM is when it comes to protecting its cash-cow Star Trek franchise.

Perhaps the new Russian government at the time didn't have the budget or creativity to come up with their own logo so as a quick fix they took the universally familiar Star Trek, Starfleet Insignia. Or it may have been to pay homage to Star Trek and the late Gene Roddenberry.

In either case, the MA site needs an official reason for what influenced the New-RKA to come up with this logo. And when you have something aboveboard, and not mere speculative musings of some n00b like me, the main "Starfleet Insignia" article should be updated with the new information and the picture of the new-RKA Insignia, explaining the eerie similarities. Dsmith2

The round thing could represent any number of things, like, I don't know, THE EARTH. Seriously, we have no basis for saying this is from Trek, and VIACOM (or whoever owns the copyright now) would have a hell of a time trying to make a lawsuit. I suggest you read the previous discussion on the Space Command insignia, where we decided not to even mention it unless we had some proof. --OuroborosCobra talk 01:31, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
As I said, just now: I can't seem to find any origin for this logo on a quick search. Speculation should most certainly be left out of this article, but it is very similar to the TNG logo (pay attention to the circle!). You seem to know more about this logo than I (having never seen it before), perhaps you can find out where they "stole" their idea from (a link would be nice), and post it here. Then you wouldn't be such a "n00b" (I jest).--Tim Thomason 01:35, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
The circle thing could easily also just represent an orbit. Think about it, elliptical, and something the Russian Space Agency does a lot of... --OuroborosCobra talk 01:43, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
You contributors here never cease to amaze me. I can't believe I actually got such a swift response to any wiki or forum post in my life, nor have I received one so heated and ill tempered as this one. As soon as this n00b gets more information from the Russian Federal Space Agency, perhaps a real correspondence from one of their PR liasons or something, their consulate in my area, or maybe even NASA, I will gladly fill everyone in on all the gory details. In the mean time here is a a little IQ test for everyone. Which two out of three images below bear most resemblance to each other? Have fun - Good luck! Dsmith2
Starfleet Command signage logo, 2360s

Starfleet Operations Insignia circa 2364

<<File:RKA_Logo.png|left|thumb|125px|Russian Federal Space Agency circa 1992-Present>>

<<File:USSC.jpg|left|thumb|125px|US Space Command Assignment Patch>>

First off, I don't think anyones responses have been ill-tempered. I've stated the policy that we basically made the last time something like this came up, which is that without proof, we are not going to include it. So far, the closest to ill tempered I have seen is you calling yourself a "n00b". No one else is using name calling or anything of the like. I'm sorry if you cannot accept that we want proof before including something, but that is that. --OuroborosCobra talk 02:19, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
First off for the record Mr. OuroborosCobra, I think you are being a bit overbearing and an intolerant prick. Why don't you fudge off and leave me alone. If you don't like what I have contributed here to the discussion, why don't you delete this whole goddamm RKA thing I started, since I wasn't the first to ever mention it. I didn't think I was because some things are just too obvious, but given your crappy WikiShitti structure that you have here, things are hard to find. If you don't like me, if you don't like the I don't play by your very authoritarian rules then why don't you put your horned Klingon boot in my ass and send me to Grethor where dishonorable Hew-mon scum like me belong, got it? dsmith2 21 FEB 2007 22:59 EDT (Up yours globalist UTC scum.)
Just thought I'd point out: this has actually been brought up (though as a minor point) before at Talk:NASA. Also, based on a basic translation of the RosCosmos Official website [1] / [2], use of the logo is only with their permission, and for information, call +7 (095) 975-44-58.  :-) Anyone interested in calling and asking "Did you base your logo off of Star Trek?" Gotta say, I'm tempted to do so myself... - AJ Halliwell 03:03, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
BTW, I've replaced the Starfleet_Logo.jpg image used, as it is being proposed for deletion. As for the RKA image, it was copied from Wikipedia (according to User talk:Dsmith2), and the image on Wikipedia (here) isn't well-sourced, but claims to be made by the user, and was documented under the GNUFDL, so I think it shouldn't be here either.--Tim Thomason 03:32, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
To bring an end to a long-winded debate about a file that probably shouldn't be on here anyway, why not just add a note similar to the one about the US Space Command logo. It begins with "in a form of fact emulating fiction". A similar note about this Russian logo can be added which notes the striking similarity, but, if anything, implies that it's only a coincidence. --Pearse 15:22, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
There is no such note about the Space Command logo. We removed it long ago. --OuroborosCobra talk 16:23, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
But it's right here in the background section of the article: "In a form of fact emulating fiction (and vice-versa), the US Space Command badges have a delta arrowhead very similar to the 1960s-designed Enterprise insignia, while the Earth Starfleet SF insignia seems to be a deliberate synthesis between the TOS era pennant and the NASA logo." A note about the RKA logo could be written in a similar manner, pointing out that there's a similarity, but not necessarily a derivation.--Pearse 16:58, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
Touché. --Alan del Beccio 04:20, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
I was thinking of the United States armed forces article, where it was removed. Probably should be removed here as well, for the same reasons it was in the other one. I would also add that our note (an our image) seems to be in error, as this seems to be the shield for the Air Force Space Command, not the US Space Command. --OuroborosCobra talk 04:31, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
Hey, i wanted to take a chance to be an intolerant prick: could everyone take their images and shove them where the sun doesn't shine? thanks in advance. love, Captain M.K.B.

Removed Edit

According to the in the context of warp drive,
The starfleet delta represents the energy layers of the Cochrane. Put together they form the energy requirements for warp drive vs. the energy required to maintain the warp field is the distortion of the warp field. Star Trek: The Next Generation Technical Manual (pages 54, 55)

If anyone can verify this, and reword it to make sense, it can be put back into the bg section. - Archduk3:talk 17:10, December 28, 2009 (UTC)

Category Edit

I'm wondering what the rationale is for categorizing this article under "Agencies" and "Earth agencies". While Starfleet is an agency, the Starfleet insignia itself is not an agency, it is the symbol of an agency.--31dot 14:40, June 26, 2011 (UTC)

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