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Division Colors Edit

ENT 2230s AR 2250s 2250s-2260s TOS TMP "Red Jacket" DS9 DS9 FC
Command Command Command Command Command Command Command Command Command Command
Helm and Navigation
Operations Operations Operations Operations Operations Engineering and Maintenance Helm and Engineering Operations Operations Operations
Communications Navigation and Communications
Security and Services Security
Services
Sciences Sciences Sciences Sciences Sciences Sciences
R&D and Technical 		Sciences
R&D and Technical 		Sciences Sciences Sciences
Medical Medical Medical
Admirals are usually command, Enlisted and Cadets can be any
Admiral Admiral Use Division Color Admiral Admiral Admiral Admiral Admiral
Enlisted
Cadet Cadet Cadet Cadet Cadet Cadet

The 2230s colors from Star Trek will be added when the DVDs come out and some consensus can be reached. - Archduk3:talk 07:56, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

See Talk:Starfleet uniform (2230s) for the discussion of the 2230s colors from Star Trek. - Archduk3:talk 17:36, September 16, 2009 (UTC)
New table, with colors from Star Trek that haven't been decided on, so hold off using them until the discussion on that is decided. - Archduk3:talk 00:10, September 26, 2009 (UTC)

George KirkEdit

The screencaps seen here, [1] show that he is actually wearing the grey color instead of blue (compair the scrrenshot of Rabau walking up the stairs in Engineering with the crewman standing at attention to see the slight difference in the colors). - Archduk3:talk 12:49, October 13, 2009 (UTC)

MACOsEdit

Why are the MACO casualties listed under the heading "Starfleet Casualties"? – The preceding unsigned comment was added by 62.178.60.233 (talk).

The subsection begins by explaining that MACOs were not part of Starfleet. They are listed here because they were on Starfleet missions when they died. Perhaps this should be noted. -- Captain Mike K. Barteltalk

I going to move the known MACO casualties back into this page since there are references to them in both the NX and Mirror sections already. Also, Archer made no distinction between MACO and Starfleet casualties on his mission, and I feel there isn't any reason too either. The differences between MACO and Starfleet will be noted. _ Archduk3 20:37, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Why not just give "MACO casualties" its own page? --OuroborosCobra talk 22:25, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
There are only six known casualties and a whole lot of maybes. Also, MACO casualties was already merged with the the Military Assault Command Operations because of the low number of KIAs vs. WIAs, which since I don't own Star Trek: Enterprise, I can't compile. - Archduk3 22:29, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
Then leave them there. The fact is, they don't belong here. They weren't members of Starfleet, flat out. Archer's lack of distinguishing them in terms of numbers lost has to do more with the fact that, Starfleet or not, they were members of his crew. This isn't an "Enterprise crew casualty list," though, so they shouldn't be here. --OuroborosCobra talk 22:31, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
Fair enough. - Archduk3 22:33, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

TMP transporter casualtiesEdit

Who were the two people (and a security guard) among the Enterprise 1701 crew who died in a transporter accident in 2272. If that's supposed to be the same accident that killed Sonak, it's both redundant and a year off. If not, who was it and when was this referenced. – The preceding unsigned comment was added by T smitts (talk • contribs).

Events from Star Trek: The Motion Picture are mentioned in the film to be two-and a half years after the end of the TOS mission, referenced as being in 2270 -- two and a half years after something in the first half of 2270 would be in 2272. Of the two years TMP is possible to have taken place in 2272 or 2273, 2272 is closest to the other assumed date for that film, 2271 presented in the Star Trek Chronology.
The two people killed in the transporter were Sonak himself and an unnamed crewwoman, mentioned to be named Lori Ciana in Star Trek: The Motion Picture (novel), the novelization. Its not quite redundant to list each of the three of the people who died on that mission -- but it was clearer before an archivist separated that note which was originally on the same line as Sonak's entry.
The security guard was not killed in the transporter. V'Ger killed him on the bridge in a deleted scene, during the same mission. -- Captain Mike K. Barteltalk

Data?Edit

Data isn't listed? Considering canonly he's a sentient being, he should be here. 68.9.205.10 10:21, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Data should be listed. -- Captain Mike K. Barteltalk

Redshirt Reference Edit

The reference to the redshirt article should be removed. The referenced article, while interesting, is not canon and should not be referenced in this manner. Aholland 23:50, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

Non-Canon; Incomplete Edit

This article requires someone to go through and (1) remove non-canon information (e.g., the name of the captain of the U.S.S. Intrepid), and (2) include notations of missing casualties (e.g., the rest of the crew of the U.S.S. Intrepid). Not to pick on the Intrepid, but that's just the one spot check I did.Aholland 11:28, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

The Captain of the Intrepid is not necessarily non-canon here, per se, as this site does accept references cut from scripts, deleted scenes, and in some cases background information as "useful references," which is more or less noted on Satak's page. Additionally, I'm not sure what you mean exactly regarding the crew of the Intrepid. What is wrong with: "Satak's entire Vulcan crew of 400 was killed by a giant space amoeba"? Finally, the lack of names, which seems to be more of the case here than inaccuracies, should be what is reflected in the template used, therefore I changed it to pna-incomplete, as I am sure there are more casualties not listed there that should be. --Alan del Beccio 11:42, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

Noting the entire crew is fine; I somehow "blipped" over that - sorry. However, I do not believe that the name "Satak" exists in the episode as shown, or in any other relevant source material that is "semi-canon" (scripts, etc.) If a source can be named that makes sense for canon purposes, I'm all for it. Otherwise it should simply be listed as the vessel name with all hands lost. Aholland 12:32, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

yeah, I dropped the ball on that one. --Alan 17:53, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

episode reference Edit

Out of curiosity, why are the episodes in which the characters were killed or had their deaths referenced not included in each line? F8street 13:47, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Because the point of a list article is to be as informative as possible while still giving the reader cause to read further.. each character's name is a link to a separate article, and each separate article contains a link to the episode where the character died. Basically, the list is just for the names and as brief as possible an explanation of the death, and the reader who wants to know the episode reference will simply have to click the name to find out more information. (after all, this article would double or triple in size if we started adding more data, and this seems unnecessary if the data is duplicated in a separate article linked from here). -- Captain M.K.B. 14:01, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, that makes sense. F8street 14:09, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Unnamed deaths should have a reference since there is no linked article.

-Archduk3 20:36, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

Way of the Warrior?Edit

Was that operations woman on Defiant killed? Shes the one that that reported on the status of the cloaking device as the Defiant set of to collect Dukat. Her console exploded, Sisko went to her, but then went back to his seat. Does that mean she was dead, or not seriously hurt and could be left? – The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.47.185.17 (talk).

Forum:List of officers killed by episodeEdit

Looking for a list of episodes where a Starfleet officer is killed or all onscreen deaths. Does anybody know of such a list. I am using the episode descriptions to create one but I was hoping there might already be one. – The preceding unsigned comment was added by Pardenarden (talk • contribs).

You could probably extrapolate something from Starfleet casualties. --Alan del Beccio 01:49, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Fifty-eight?Edit

According to the note at the bottom of the section for the original Enterprise, the novelization puts the total death toll under Kirk's command at 96 and the on-screen deaths at 67... and then closes with a statement that "Fifty-eight deaths occurred during the five-year mission." Where does this last figure, which clearly contradicts the two preceding it, come from? - Caswin 23:23, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

If you subtract all the non-Five year mission casualties (2272/2285/2254), and Leslie and Galloway, you get 57 deaths. So, when Aurelius Kirk added that note in 2006, he must've miscounted somewhere (I did twice trying to make sure of the count). I'll take the note out.--Tim Thomason 00:19, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

...oh, there it goes. I see. Thank you. - Caswin 04:57, April 17, 2012 (UTC)

Enterprise-C and VoyagerEdit

Added the known crew members since they were listed as KIA when the ship was lost. Also, Tasha may be from an alt universe but she died in the the prime universe. This makes Harry Kim and Naomi Wildman status problematic. Any thoughts on those two? Do we have an image of Kim's death?

-Edited from my previous comments by Archduk3 21:37, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

Deep Space 9Edit

Section needs citations. -Archduk3 17:42, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

Removed from article Edit

  • Unnamed security/engineering officer killed by the rebel Jem'Hadar along with crewmen and Bajorans in the attack on Deep Space 9.
  • Two security officers were killed while protecting the members of the Detapa Council with Dukat and Garak.

I can't find anything on two people being killed in "The Way of the Warrior" which I think is what the second entry is from, but I have no idea what the first one is. If anyone knows who these people are please add them back in with proper citations or links. -Archduk3 03:52, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

Enterprise NX-01 Edit

Should someone add Sim to the list? I suppose the symbiot, himself wasn't a member of starfleet but he was a copy (including memories) so as far as Sim was concerned he was Tucker. (And he was given a Starfleet-style sendoff) — Morder 22:58, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

Is there a better image for him? -Archduk3 23:52, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

New Tables Edit

I finish redoing the tables later today. - Archduk3:talk 11:12, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

Some questions Edit

Just to clear things up a bit. First, why was Sam removed from the list? Charlie made him disappear, so he is dead (sort of). Yes, he was restored in the novelization, but it was never mentioned on screen. Second, does Wesley Crusher being stabbed in "Hide and Q" count as his death? If it does, then it should be added to the TNG revivals. QuiGonJinnTalk 13:20, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Sam's removal was most likely a mistake when the new tables were added. I haven't seen the episode in awhile but I think someone said Worf was dead after being stabbed, so if that happened for Wesley, then yes, he should be. - Archduk3:talk 15:06, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Michael Jonas's entry in the "Rank" column Edit

I see that the recently added for Michael Jonas under USS Voyager lists him as a crewman, which is supported in all his appearances. Yet, the rank pip shown next to his name is that of a Chief Petty Officer, as is shown on the Starfleet ranks page and is evident from the file name ("Vgr chief.png"). I looked at the picture of him and see that he was indeed wearing that rank pip. However, wouldn't this be classified as a production error, much like Tuvok's fluctuating rank early in the show? Since he was stated on numerous occasions to be a Crewman, I would think that we should show him on this page with the rank of a crewman--namely, with blank.gif for his rank pip (like we have for other crewmen on this page). Thoughts, anyone? -Mdettweiler 03:24, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Edit: I see that Lon Suder is this way, too. Interestingly enough, Suder is also seen wearing the one-bar provisional insignia in screenshots of him that I found on Trekcore from "Meld". Maybe this is just standard practice to have not only CPOs but crewmen as well wear the one-bar insignia if they're provisional? ("Official" Starfleet crewmen would, of course, have no rank insignia, though in this case the discussion is regarding provisional guys.) -Mdettweiler 03:32, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

It seems to be the correct rank, see Starfleet ranks, Seska is an ensign, I'll make the change now. - Archduk3:talk 03:37, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
Seska is also shown with the hollow bar insignia of a crewman or enlisted, so now we have a problem with her rank. - Archduk3:talk 03:43, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
Hmm, I see what you mean. Probably we should treat this like we do for other costuming errors (like some of Tuvok's earlier ranks like I mentioned in my initial posting), and show it as the correct rank (one filled bar, for ensign)? -Mdettweiler 03:53, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

As that is what it is now, I don't see any reason to change it until we know more, though you would think someone would have caught it by now, the picture on her page makes it pretty clear. - Archduk3:talk 04:08, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Timeline issuesEdit

I know this gets confusing, but the Picard listed as killed by himself is from an alternate timeline, but was killed in the "actual" timeline, and so is listed under the main section instead of the alternate one. This is the same reasoning that has Tasha Yar listed twice in the main section, under both the Enterprise-C and D. And if Harry Kim, Miles O'Brien, or Naomi Wildman are killed (again) they will also be listed twice. - Archduk3:talk 12:39, September 4, 2009 (UTC)

  • IMO, if the second Picard is from an alternate timeline, he should not be counted as a prime timeline casualty. See, in the "actual timeline", there is only one Jean-Luc Picard assigned to the Enterprise-D; that Picard survived the events of "Time Squared", therefore the "prime" Enterprise took no casualties during the episode. Listing the "alternate" Picard in the main subsection makes things too confusing. It would be much easier if the latter was listed in the "alternate timeline casualties". QuiGonJinnTalk 17:31, September 4, 2009 (UTC)

The thinking behind this is our Picard had to write a report to Starfleet about the events of that episode, including killing himself, which means there would be a record of his death in the "actual" timeline. - Archduk3:talk 12:38, September 7, 2009 (UTC)

"Multiple Timelines" banner Edit

Since the vast majority of the article is dealing entirely with the "prime" timeline, perhaps this should be relocated to the "Alternate Timelines and Parallel Universes" section? -Mdettweiler 18:20, September 24, 2009 (UTC)

I was thinking about splitting the article there anyway. I'll move the one down now and add the new timeline banner to the AR section. - Archduk3:talk 19:06, September 24, 2009 (UTC)
Bad news, there has to be a banner at the top for a second one to stay in place in the article. - Archduk3:talk 19:11, September 24, 2009 (UTC)

Hmm...worked for me. *shrugs* -Mdettweiler 04:07, September 25, 2009 (UTC)

Actually, never mind that. It seems that while it worked yesterday, the "multiple realities" header didn't "stick" after a couple edits to other, non-related portions of the article. Despite the header still being present in the "Alternate Timelines" section of the source code, in the actual article it is displayed at the top of the page. Note that the "New Timeline" header still is staying put in the "Alternate Reality" section like it's supposed to. Anyone know why this is happening? -Mdettweiler 14:12, September 25, 2009 (UTC)
It seems that two headers can't be at the top, so the second one stays in the section it was placed in. - Archduk3:talk 17:56, September 25, 2009 (UTC)

Hmm...strange. Do you (or anyone else) by chance know where one could ask about why this isn't working? (Because after all, I'd think it's just another template as far as MediaWiki is concerned, and thus there should be no reason why it can't go anywhere we put it.) -Mdettweiler 20:52, September 25, 2009 (UTC)

The template is designed specifically to go above the article, outside the content. It isn't designed to be inserted into the content. You're attempting to use it in a way it isn't made to be used. -- Michael Warren | Talk 20:56, September 25, 2009 (UTC)

Page split Edit

With this page as long as it is, it might be a good idea to split the page with the 22nd and 23rd century as one page and the 24th century as another. - Archduk3:talk 03:40, September 28, 2009 (UTC)

I agree with the split, but it would be more consistent (with e.g. Unnamed Humans) and simpler to have a page for each century.– Cleanse 06:36, September 28, 2009 (UTC)

I agree, though that's going to make the 22nd century one a little thin. Could always make it a Starfleet and MACO casualties page for that century. - Archduk3:talk 07:13, September 28, 2009 (UTC)

The 22nd century would still be a decent sized page IMO. We have Unnamed Humans (31st century) with one person, after all. ;-) I think it's probably best to keep the Starfleet and MACO casualties separate, as they are different organisations.
There's no real harm with (relatively) short pages with these lists, so long as the distinction is clear and this page serves as the hub.– Cleanse 07:49, September 28, 2009 (UTC)
So we'll have Starfleet casualties (22nd century), Starfleet casualties (23rd century), and Starfleet casualties (24th century) and this becomes a disambiguation page. - Archduk3:talk 15:46, September 28, 2009 (UTC)
I agree that splitting this page by century would be a good idea. One question, though: how would we group Alternate Reality casualties? I'd guess that they'd go as a separate section on the 23rd century page (like how they're displayed now on the one page), but I just wanted to check in case anyone was thinking of putting them as a separate article or something like that. -Mdettweiler 19:09, September 28, 2009 (UTC)
Maybe after the next movie comes out they may get a page, but I don't think it would be an issue to have them on the 23rd century page for now. - Archduk3:talk 22:01, September 28, 2009 (UTC)
Meh, I wouldn't really want to see this page split; I just find it kinda easier to navigate when all casualties are grouped together at the same place. Then again, if it is going to be split, I agree with Archduk3 regarding the AR casualties. QuiGonJinnTalk 19:51, September 29, 2009 (UTC)

I split the page as described above, just need an admin to link the history from this page to the new ones, and split the talk page as well. - Archduk3:talk 19:34, October 21, 2009 (UTC)

Should non-Starfleet personnel on this page be kept? Edit

I see that there are a number of people listed in this article who aren't Starfleet personnel:

Harrison and Merik are especially out of place since they weren't even on board a Starfleet vessel (in fact one could probably say the same for 2387 Spock). Naomi Wildman sort of still fits on this page, IMO, since she was on board a Starfleet vessel at the time, but that isn't the case for the others. Anybody got an opinion on which of these, if any, warrant removal from the page? -Mdettweiler 01:59, October 1, 2009 (UTC)

R.M. Merik is in the Starfleet personal category, but Harrison is not, so those two most likely can go. Naomi was a personal choice of mine, since she was seen as a member of Starfleet in the future, and has a "job" as the Captain's assistant, which is essentially a yeoman. I can see why she shouldn't be on the page though. As for Spock, if he gos, so will Kirk. I'm under the impression that "retiring" from Starfleet is more along the lines of being switched to inactive, as in you you are always a Starfleet officer even if you aren't in uniform at that moment. I can't see how becoming an ambassador would change that. – The preceding unsigned comment was added by Archduk3 (talk • contribs).

Hmm...methinks maybe Merik should be removed from the Starfleet personnel category then, since he was explicitly stated in the episode to not be a member of Starfleet. He and Harrison, as well as the rest of the crew of their ship, could probably be moved to a separate "Merchant Marines Casualties" page. As for Naomi, the copy of her that died obviously did not have the "captain's assistant" job yet, so that wouldn't really count; but, yes, I agree, she should be kept on the page since she was clearly aboard a Starfleet vessel, and would thus be considered part of its crew in the broader sense of the word. As for Spock and by extension Kirk, good point, I didn't think about that--in real life, if a military officer retires, they're still properly referred to as "[Rank] So-and-So, retired", so I'd definitely say that counts as personnel in that service. We should definitely keep Spock and Kirk, then. -Mdettweiler 03:19, October 1, 2009 (UTC)

Ugh, I can't believe I didn't sign twice in a row...but back to the topic at hand, Isn't the crew of the SS Beagle the only Merchant Marines ship known? Might need a Non-Starfleet "Federation casualties" page to make it worth it. - Archduk3:talk 03:32, October 1, 2009 (UTC)

Additionally, I've removed the rest of the crew of that ship:

Making a non-Starfleet "Federation casualties" page sounds like a good idea. I'm sure there are plenty of other guys which could go on that page as well, besides the SS Beagle's crew. -Mdettweiler 13:54, October 1, 2009 (UTC)
Okay, I've now started the Federation casualties page for non-Starfleet folks and put the SS Beagle crew on it as its inaugural listing. Others can feel free to spot non-Starfleet casualties on this page and move them over there as necessary. (Note that, as touched on above, someone like the copy of Naomi Wildman who was aboard a Starfleet ship at time of death should be listed on Starfleet casualties instead of on Federation casualties.) -Mdettweiler 02:46, October 2, 2009 (UTC)

Order Edit

The page clearly states that the order is alphabetical by date. This makes it easier to find someone, as well as skipping the whole production vs. airing order debate. - Archduk3:talk 14:24, October 5, 2009 (UTC)

Retrieved from "http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Talk:Starfleet_casualties?oldid=1399462"

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