Wikia

Memory Alpha

Talk:Star Trek (video game)

37,512pages on
this wiki

Back to page

Revision as of 04:36, May 19, 2013 by Dr. Cheis (Talk | contribs)

Canon?

Since this is written by the writers of the film, will it be canon? Roger Murtaugh 22:46, June 3, 2011 (UTC)

No, just as Star Trek: Countdown is not canon despite the involvement of the movie's writers. Please review MA:CANON for more information, but only things depicted on screen are canon.--31dot 23:01, June 3, 2011 (UTC)

You are saying that Star Trek: Countdown is non-canon but this however would be saying that Star Trek Online is non-canon as much of the game's storyline mentions Nero, Spock, Data and Picard (etc) working together to prevent the destruction of Romulus and Star Trek Online has been mentioned as being canon in several articles on Memory Alpha. --Brian (talk) 16:37, May 8, 2013 (UTC)

Just because non-canon products mention canon characters, it doesn't make them canon. I don't know of a non-canon Trek book or game that doesn't mention at least one canon character. I'm not sure what you are referring to when you say STO has "been mentioned as being canon in several articles"; we might have quotes from some who state that it is consistent with canon- I'm not sure- but we also have quotes from people who state that they can't decide what is canon. In any event, this wiki is about filmed Star Trek, not games, novels, or comics. That's Memory Beta. 31dot (talk) 16:55, May 8, 2013 (UTC)

Okay, thank you for replying. I understand how narrowing it down to filmed editions of the franchise can make the wiki a lot easier to manage.--Brian (talk) 13:26, May 10, 2013 (UTC)

Canon redux

But what about now that the vice president of Paramount Pictures is saying that it absolutely is 100 percent canon? I think with certain regime changes we should take such things into consideration that this game is canon. Why shouldn't it be, just because games weren't canon before?

--Noah Tall (talk) 18:15, March 7, 2013 (UTC)

Still won't be canon for us without more discussion. Short answer? We'll have to wait to see what the game entails.
Longer answer? Do you have a cite for your comments? Did he mean that it would fit in with canon, or actually be part of it? And what specifically would be canon? Games have multiple paths that can be taken, so which one would be deemed as the "canon story"?
Without knowing all of those details, we can't really determine anything. In the short term, we deem that which is filmed (TV and movie) as canon, and nothing else. -- sulfur (talk) 18:39, March 7, 2013 (UTC)
I presume the VP of Paramount also has very limited, if any, involvement in the production of this game (and Star Trek in general) and thus they are probably just stating their personal opinion, if that's what they indeed said.
A game (or any work) can be consistent with canon; that doesn't make it canon. Also, if this game is considered canon, that opens the door for any other game to be considered canon, or even other works like the Countdown series(which also had similar statements made about it, if I recall), or Star Trek Online (which also has some saying it is or could be canon). That's why drawing the line at filmed Star Trek is a good policy. 31dot (talk) 20:49, March 7, 2013 (UTC)
If you're referring to the discussion in this article with a Paramount VP, there's no comment about it being canon, only that it would fit with canon. -- sulfur (talk) 20:57, March 7, 2013 (UTC)

Actually he indeed said it is canon, “It’s a canon story. You’re getting an untold adventure that you can’t get anywhere else. We wanted to make a game that could be a movie on its own.” - Brian Miller, senior VP and games producer of Paramount Pictures http://goo.gl/CmL1y --Meepmeep189 (talk) 01:05, March 26, 2013 (UTC)

Again, just because it could be canon doesn't mean it is canon. When it is actually a movie, then we can talk. Mr. Miller's statement could be said about any game or novel. The Star Trek Online people have made similar comments. If we allow this game, we would have to allow all games. There's a wiki for that. 31dot (talk) 02:25, March 26, 2013 (UTC)
Furthermore, as Sulfur asked, which parts are canon? If the player takes the role of Captain Kirk and they die does that mean Kirk dying is canon? What if there are different possibilities on how the game concludes? You are misinterpreting what he said. Every novel author and game maker wants their game to be a "canon story". Otherwise, no one would want to play it as a Star Trek game because it wouldn't be Star Trek. 31dot (talk) 02:29, March 26, 2013 (UTC)

That doesn't mean the events in the story aren't canon to the new universe that's been created. In the case of video games and book and comics for the prime universe I'd agree, but this is a new universe, therefore a new canon only connected loosely to the previous canon (which makes sense considering this is indeed a reboot). In this new Canon it has been specifically said that anything overseen by the "supreme court" is part of the canon of the new universe and new canon. By classifying this game as canon, that doesn't mean you have to classify other games from the "prime/old universe" canon, it merely means you have to impose a new set of rules for a separate canon.--Meepmeep189 (talk) 00:03, March 27, 2013 (UTC)

There is no "new canon" and "old canon", there is just canon. The entirety of the Star Trek universe was not rebooted; otherwise the last film would not have involved Nimoy's Spock and Nero from the same universe, and Abrams would have just totally ignored all previous Star Trek(in terms of his universe). It's also not true that anything the "court" oversees is canon; the Countdown comic is not canon despite the involvement of the writers of the last movie. This isn't the Star Wars universe where everything is at least partially canon. I again suggest that you visit Memory Beta, which does deal in games and incorporates them into its database. 31dot (talk) 02:01, March 27, 2013 (UTC)
Orci has also stated that the new comics and novels (that he has been personally overseeing) are not canon. Only what's on screen is canon (is what he said), "supreme court" or not. -- sulfur (talk) 02:03, March 27, 2013 (UTC)

If I may play devil's advocate, how do we know that the "only TV shows/movies are canon" rule is still the rule of thumb? (A disclaimer: I don't want the video game to be canonical; from what I've heard and seen of the game, the Gorn bear little resemblance to the Gorn from TOS -- or the novels, for that matter. I also don't want to see "Star Trek" canon expand to include non-TV/movie material.)

The original canon policy was invented by Gene Roddenberry. After he died, his policy was continued by Rick Berman and the others who took over creating "Star Trek". Now, for all practical purposes, J.J. Abrams is in charge of "Star Trek". Wouldn't that mean that he is now in charge, it's his decision what bears the stamp of canon? If that follows, that would mean that if he proclaims this game canon (or any of the other licensed material based on the alternate reality, for that matter), then it's canon?

(To put the question another way, can we that the game is not canon, even if Abrams says "Yes, it's as canon as my movies?")

(P.S. to Sulfur, if J.J. Abrams were to insist that the game was canon, I speculate that he will say that one outcome, presumably a winning one, was the "real" version and that the other outcomes were "what if" scenarios, the way in "The Force Unleashed", the canon outcome is that Starkiller turned to the light side, even though you can choose to kill Darth Vader and become the Emperor's new apprentice. And as far as people not wanting to touch it if it weren't canon, I'd disagree; I like reading "Star Trek" novels on occasion, even though I know -- and am glad -- that they are not canon.)

146.57.192.65 13:04, March 28, 2013 (UTC)

Said rule of thumb? Quoted by Orci. Multiple times. Multiple outlets.
The original canon policy was not invented by Roddenberry. His policy was that TAS was not canon. Several TOS episodes were not canon. Some movies were not canon. Etc, etc, etc.
Strictly speaking, The Force Unleashed game wasn't "canon" in the Star Wars universe, but the novel was.
Regardless, it's irrelevant to Memory Alpha at the moment. The game is not canon. -- sulfur (talk) 13:12, March 28, 2013 (UTC)
I probably phrased the question poorly. I do understand that the official "Star Trek" canon policy is that only the TV shows and movies are canon, with TAS being initially excluded but now possibly canon (and with live action material superseding it). As I had understood it, that general policy (excusing TAS and whatever else he wanted thrown out) was originated by Roddenberry, as far as not counting licensed material based on "Star Trek" was concerned. It then evolved into more or less what we've used today. The "Star Wars" comment was merely an analogy on how other franchises have incorporated media that can take many paths into their canon (and I'm pretty sure that "The Force Unleashed" is canon -- at any rate "Knights of the Old Republic" is).
I was only trying to raise two questions:
Question 1: Can J.J. Abrams change "Star Trek's" canon policy since he's in charge of the current incarnation of it? If not, then who is, or is nobody?
Question 2:If J.J. Abrams told "Memory Alpha": "The 'Star Trek' video game is as canonical as the movies and TV shows are" what would our response be?

146.57.192.65 16:43, March 28, 2013 (UTC)

Star Wars is a different beast, as Lucas was overseeing stuff, and they had an actual committee vetting everything to ensure adherence.
Can JJ change "canon"? Maybe. Who knows.
If he tells us that the game is canon? We'll cross that bridge if it occurs (I suspect that it never will). -- sulfur (talk) 17:07, March 28, 2013 (UTC)
Indeed- Abrams does not oversee the creation of all Star Trek products like George Lucas did for Star Wars. That allowed Lucas to determine what would be in novels and games and make sure that they fit with his vision of the Star Wars universe. Trek has never had such a person; the content of Trek novels and games has almost always been determined by the persons or companies making them; Pocket Books has been directing the content of the latest Trek novels, and the makers of STO have been directing the content of their game. This includes when live-action Trek staff have been involved in creating non-canon works(like Jeri Taylor's novels, Armin Shimerman's novel, and even the Countdown comic) 31dot (talk) 18:49, March 28, 2013 (UTC)
I think we are in a transition phase when it comes to media. When the first rules of the canon were founded, TV/Movies were considered separate from other forms of media, i.e. comics, games, and the like. A person could have an understanding and appreciation of one, without knowing about the other. Now, they are becoming to be seen as a components of a larger whole, what the industry calls synergy. For instance, the comics and the eleventh movie worked together to tell a complete story. Now, we have the next movie, and it's becoming clear that we are seeing the pattern repeated. I don't know where in this story the game will fit. For myself, I see three solutions: (1.) acknowledge that what has been produced outside the movies in the Abrams reign is canon and treat it as canon, or (2.) acknowledge somewhere in the background notes that this material is treated as tentatively being canon, or (3.) adhere to the standard set thirty years ago. Personally, I favor two, for it is a compromise, a middle between the two extremes. Throwback (talk) 20:31, March 28, 2013 (UTC)
One issue there is that some of the material contained in the Countdown comics, for example, was contradicted by the final cut of the movie. I'm certain the same will happen with the novels, ongoing series, and so forth. -- sulfur (talk) 06:17, March 29, 2013 (UTC)
I don't believe this is a serious issue, as, from and within the first series, there have been contradictions in the canon Star Trek. I think they are called retcons.Throwback (talk) 05:53, March 30, 2013 (UTC)

I agree with that statement, Memora Alpha has documented numerous canon contradictions in their articles. In this case we're not saying all books, comics, and games are canon, just that anything overseen but the "court" is canon to the new universe they created. Just because we don't want it to be canon doesn't mean it isn't. I'm willing to agree to the 2nd option presented by Throwback.--Meepmeep189 (talk) 03:03, April 1, 2013 (UTC)

Canon contradictions are just that- found in canon. Games have never been considered canon (of any level) in the Trek universe, something which Orci has said about his own comics(it's not canon just because he wrote it). The misinterpreted comments of one Paramount VP who probably had little involvement in actually working on the game doesn't make the game canon. Just because some want games to be canon doesn't mean they are, either. There is no need to change how we approach canon content. 31dot (talk) 10:35, April 1, 2013 (UTC)
They are hardly misinterpreted, this guy has said in countless interviews "This is Canon" http://goo.gl/q8HQL around the 1 minute mark, http://goo.gl/5NLnZ also says in this one he worked with "The Supreme Court," http://goo.gl/2JrCC in which also states that he is also the Game producer on the game, and numerous other interviews across the web and gaming communities. It also fits in with Orci's statement that anything overseen by "The Supreme Court" relating to the new star trek series of films or "reboot" (like it or not it is a reboot with ties to the previous incarnation of Trek) is in fact canon http://goo.gl/WwqaJ . yes he did require coaxing to do it, but they have been following the precendent of that policy as it has here with this game. The preceding unsigned comment was added by Meepmeep189 (talk • contribs).
I direct you to his followup comment, in which he states:
i have said a million times that we cant determine what is canon
He was cajoled into saying something for the article. -- sulfur (talk) 10:18, April 4, 2013 (UTC)
I never said the film was not canon or not a reboot; not sure where you got that. As I said above, there is a difference between being canon and fitting in with canon; if the game didn't fit with canon, no one would buy it as a Trek game. 31dot (talk) 10:27, April 4, 2013 (UTC)
You still have to conceed that this game is canon. If we aren't going to make a new set of rules right now for the rebooted universe, you at least have to list this as such. This guy did not say it "fits in with canon" he said "this game is canon, this is what offically happened between the last movie and Star trek Into Darkness."The preceding unsigned comment was added by Meepmeep189 (talk • contribs).
And that won't be the case. Will we put something into the BG section about a random VP saying that it is canon? Sure, why not? Will we treat it as canon? No. -- sulfur (talk) 22:59, April 4, 2013 (UTC)
I have to concede nothing. Orci concedes nothing as well. 31dot (talk) 01:36, April 5, 2013 (UTC)
Another point of evidence has been presented by Mr. Orci, "True fans will tell you that canon is only what’s filmed. I’m not an authority on what is canon. However, I will tell you that this may be the first game that falls within the parameters of the people who are in charge of canon for now; the “supreme court,” as we call ourselves… this is the first time where the game itself is generated by the people who are deciding canon and we generated the game to fit within canon." [1] I've also put tenetivly on the page that it's been stated as canon but the claim is currently in dispute.--Meepmeep189 (talk) 04:18, April 20, 2013 (UTC)
Earlier this year, the video game Aliens: Colonial Marines was identified as a canon element in the Aliens Franchise. I am hoping that the new Star Trek game isn't as odious as that other game.Throwback (talk) 04:24, April 20, 2013 (UTC)
Not sure if this is relevant, but in a January interview with Star Trek.com Orci was asked how canon the Countdown to Darkness comics are. His answer - and I think this would apply to the game as well - was, "We get asked that a lot, and it’s our understanding that canon is that which is filmed. As a strict Constitutionalist, I don’t support a change in the definition of canon during my tenure. Perhaps future courts can take up the issue, but in the meantime the comics are as close to canon as you can get without being on film." Maybe this game goes into that category as well? - Mitchz95 (talk) 05:10, April 20, 2013 (UTC)
For myself, I find it frustrating that the people involved with the current Star Trek projects are deliberately elusive on answers. I feel they create fog when there shouldn't be fog.Throwback (talk) 05:42, April 20, 2013 (UTC)

Changed the page back to my previous statement that it's canonical status has yet to be determined, as Brian Miller stated quite clearly several times that the game "is canon." He did not suggest it could be, he outright stated it.

Simplify. Encyclopedic. He stated that. That's all we need to say. We don't need to say anything about "vaidity". -- sulfur (talk) 17:55, April 20, 2013 (UTC)

Agreed, I put it's status as questionable because of all the opposition to it's canon status.--Meepmeep189 (talk) 18:07, April 20, 2013 (UTC)

Its.
People can draw their own conclusions. Heck, when Mosaic came it, it was "declared canon" by Pocket Books and Jeri Taylor at the time of publication. This isn't the first time someone has said some game, book, etc is canon. It won't be the last. Personally? I take the word of the games writers over a random Paramount VP. They said "not canon, but consistent with canon" (which is what all of the novel authors also say...) -- sulfur (talk) 18:13, April 20, 2013 (UTC)

Brian Miller interview "as canon as the films".

In a recent interview with Brian Miller, he stated the following.

"TrekMovie: So being an official Paramount production and not just something licensed to a 3rd party, should this game be considered as canon as the films and not ‘canon-lite’ or ‘B-canon?’

Brian Miller: Absolutely. It was important for us early on to work with Bob Orci and the filmmakers to make sure that this fit and was part of the canon of their universe."

The interview can be seen here. - http://trekmovie.com/2013/04/21/interview-brian-miller-on-star-trek-the-video-game-and-future-of-trek-gaming/ Roger Murtaugh (talk) 07:53, April 22, 2013 (UTC)

Which is exactly the same thing that was said about Countdown and Countdown to Darkness. Anyhow, that bit was already stated above in a previous youtube interview and is already in the article from the prior interview. -- sulfur (talk) 11:04, April 22, 2013 (UTC)
It was also said, as sulfur pointed out, about the Mosaic novel, but that's not canon. If any of these things didn't fit, no one would buy them as Trek products. Orci himself has been much less committal about it. 31dot (talk) 11:52, April 22, 2013 (UTC)

I didn't think it would halt the debate, but it provides more insight within the creative minds. I think they should rethink canon so that it makes it easier for everyone. Roger Murtaugh (talk) 12:06, April 22, 2013 (UTC) Have we decided on how to treat this within the Wiki? Do we add the events of the story to the various characters' pages? Roger Murtaugh (talk) 07:38, April 25, 2013 (UTC)

Not in the in-universe parts of the article; if something significant about the characters/ships/etc is revealed in the game, that can be put in the apocrypha sections of the relevant pages. 31dot (talk) 10:01, April 25, 2013 (UTC)
With this game and the comic series Countdown to Darkness both ending with the Enterprise on course to Nibiru, I would prefer not to perform mental gymnastics in how this came about, and would be content to have them listed as apocryphal.Throwback (talk) 11:21, April 26, 2013 (UTC)
I suggest we don't write anything about it on the Character ages until the issue of canon has been resolved. It has been declared canon numerous times by people currently involved in the franchise and yet this forum refuses to acknowledge their authority in this manner. As it is this article hasn't stated one way or another if the Game is canon, so I suggest we resolve that issue beforte posting anything.--Meepmeep189 (talk) 16:34, April 29, 2013 (UTC)
Well, since it has already contradicted something else declared "canon" in advance of the film, I think that settles it right there. This can be happily be put into apocrypha. The game is not part of the MA content that we accept. It's that simple. Also, the only person saying that it is canon is a single Paramount VP. Everyone else is only saying that it is consistent with canon (something that 95% of the recent novels are, and something that the Orci written comics are). -- sulfur (talk) 17:53, April 29, 2013 (UTC)
Indeed; there is nothing here to resolve. 31dot (talk) 01:49, April 30, 2013 (UTC)
It'd be so much easier if it was more was canon. More fun, more stories. Roger Murtaugh (talk) 04:30, May 2, 2013 (UTC)

Splitscreen?

will it have splitscreenThe preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.135.193.213 (talk).

I'm not sure, but this isn't really the correct forum to ask- a gaming site or general Star Trek discussion site would be better.--31dot 02:25, December 7, 2011 (UTC)

Screenshots

I have a few screenshots that I got from the official game website, can I add them to the article? T-888 (talk) 07:13, December 21, 2012 (UTC)

Please review MA:IMAGE before doing so; if you have any questions afterwards, please post them here. 31dot (talk) 10:14, December 21, 2012 (UTC)

Stardate Update

Updated the page with the current stardate (2259.33) and corresponding Earth date (Febuary 2nd, 2259) found in this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5rL0nTdMlk--Meepmeep189 (talk) 17:54, April 6, 2013 (UTC)

Reasearch Data

A fun mechanic of the game was that you could scan various items, creatures loactions and get information and experience you could use to upgrade vario8us abilites shouldent we be puuting that ibn this article it would help flesh out the game more.--FossilLord 17:50, May 1, 2013 (UTC)

References in Into Darkness

A couple of events in the game are actually referred to in Into Darkness - would it be worth mentioning this in the article at all?

--Cube1701 (talk) 21:37, May 13, 2013 (UTC)

I think that's a good idea. But don't forget to tag the new section with the spoiler template! - Mitchz95 (talk) 22:07, May 13, 2013 (UTC)
The same goes for the Star Trek ongoing comic series based on the new universe, as well as the Countdown To Darkness series. I honestly think the mentions in the recent movie warrant reconsidering whether or not the new-universe comics and game should be considered part of the canon policy. Dr. Cheis (talk) 05:03, May 16, 2013 (UTC)
Been discussed several times; this wiki is about filmed Star Trek, not comics or games. The writers of the film (who also worked on the comics) admit that they are not necessarily canon, but are just consistent with it. Jeri Taylor's novels were similar- written with the intent to be canon but were later contradicted. Allowing one comic or games makes it harder to say no to the next one. Memory Beta deals with comics and games. 31dot (talk) 09:20, May 16, 2013 (UTC)
Well in this case there's a pretty easy distinction between these comics and games and the others, which is that they're based on the new Alternate Reality universe. I do see how potentially that distinction could become less clear in the future though. Dr. Cheis (talk) 04:36, May 19, 2013 (UTC)

Around Wikia's network

Random Wiki