Talk:Species 8472

Firepower

Seven or eight bioships are able to combine their firepower, which creates enough destructive energy to destroy entire planets.

"And we fall back." ;-) -- Redge | Talk 16:51, 26 Aug 2004 (CEST)

Non-Canon Material?

I can find nothing anywhere else, and recall nothing from the 8472 episodes, to support the statement "their species is composed of five different sexes, each of which inhabit a different sector of fluidic space." If this is correct, can someone give it a citation? If not, remove it. Aholland 04:17, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

The fact that 8472 has five sexes was given in "Someone to Watch Over Me"; unfortunately, the fact that all of the references are condensed at the end of the paragraph doesn't give much insight into where things come from. I don't recall anything about the different genders inhabiting different areas of fluidic space, but I haven't seen the episode in a few months. I'll try to check. -- SmokeDetector47^{( TALK )} 04:36, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

Yes, it is very canon that Species 8472 has, "atleast five sexes," as quoted from the doctor in "Someone to Watch Over Me". I think it needs to be readded that they have atleast 5 sexes, as that is what was stated on screen as canon evidence. -Tricit

Um... In this article it mentiones that the real threat was the only one the borg had seen in thousands of years... DUH the borg arn't that old of a species, remember VGER - or Voyager 2 spacecraft... where the borg came from... My 2 Cents – The preceding unsigned comment was added by 207.233.85.87.

Yeah, that VGER/Borg link is entirely non-canon. Oh, and V'Ger was Voyager 6, not 2. --OuroborosCobra ^talk 00:08, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

The Borg ARE that old. The V'GER/Borg link was suggested in Star Trek: Legacy, which is non-canon. Even so, in the game, when V'GER traveled across the galaxy, it also back in time. 10nitro 23:05, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

And futhermore, how can Species 8472 be the only real threat the Borg have seen in thousands of years if in the movie Star Trek: First Contact, Starfleet killed the Borg Queen, obviously posing a "real threat". – The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.235.88.195.

Have to disagree. Destroying a Borg Queen doesn't seem to be all that big a deal for the Borg. Remember, we learned in First Contact that the Borg cube that assimilated Picard and was then destroyed in Best of Both Worlds had a Borg Queen on it, one that was "destroyed". We saw the Borg Queen in Voyager as well. There does not seem to be any real threat from losing them. Either there are many, or recreating them is not a big deal. As for the rest of Starfleet interactions in the Alpha Quadrant, a single Borg cube destroyed a Federation fleet at Wolf 359, and it took ingenuity and luck for that one to get stopped. Actually, it took getting a drone back from them, Picard. In First Contact, much of a fleet was destroyed in the Typhon sector, more destroyed around Earth, and that cube was only destroyed with the combined firepower of the remaining fleet, the Enterprise-E, and targeting data from Picard. The Borg that were then eradicated from the Enterprise-E were only a small force trying to assimilate that ship.

In all of these cases, we see the Federation barely destroying very small numbers of Borg, usually single ships, and usually requiring some unusual advantage given to them by Picard and his experience as a drone. Now, let's compare that to Borg practices we saw in the Delta Quadrant. Massive fleets against 8472. What was apparently a standard assimilation operation, in this case of Species 10026, involved a large number of Borg ships, and was easy. Had the Borg used tactics like that against Starfleet, we would have presented no threat.

In fact, the first time we see Starfleet do any appreciable damage to the Borg that I can recall is the destruction of a unicomplex and a transwarp hub in ""Endgame"". Even that required technology from the future, and the involvement of an Admiral that was borderline insane.

In summary, Starfleet did not really ever represent a threat in and of itself. Man, that was a hell of a lot longer than I thought it was going to be. I have to go punish myself now. --OuroborosCobra ^talk 01:57, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

And to top that off. It was suggested that The Borg made V'ger not the other way around. Nitpicking is futile. (Vince 02:18, 4 March 2008 (UTC))

No. V'GER was 'enhanced' by an entirely mechanical race. Think Data, not Borg. On top of that "In the game Star Trek: Legacy, it's said that V'Ger itself created the Borg to gain the knowledge by assimilation." (this is non-canon though). 10nitro 23:05, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

Star Trek Magazine #5

• http://memory-alpha.org/index.php?title=Species_8472&diff=309756&oldid=307896

Someone should check this out, magazines are not canon, "official" or not, the info could, however, be used in the background. --Alan DelBeccio 11:26, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

Teaming Up?

The entry currently asserts, "Apparently, Species 8472 continue to make non-hostile patrols in the Milky Way Galaxy, possibly against the Borg, and are said to have teamed up with the Borg liberated from "Unimatrix Zero". (Unimatrix Zero, Part II)" I re-watched the (Unimatrix Zero, Part II) and there is no mention of Species 8472 teaming up with anyone. Is the citation to this episode incorrect? – The preceding unsigned comment was added by 203.218.214.74.

Here is the line in question:

AXUM: It turns out I'm on a scout ship patrolling the border of fluidic space, on the other side of the galaxy.

SEVEN: I was hoping we'd be able to meet one day, in the real world.

AXUM: Me too. There are things I can do where I am. I'll try to contact species 8472. See if I can persuade them to join the fight.

SEVEN: Given their history with the Borg I'm sure they'll be eager.

Given how it was said on the show, the line does need to be re-written, as it assumes that such a teaming up was succesful, and that 8472 was patrolling our galaxy, neither of which seem to be true.

The Borg continued to patrol a border between our galaxy and fluidic space. Axum suggested that he would try to make contact with Species 8472 after he was liberated from "Unimatrix Zero". (VOY: "Unimatrix Zero, Part II")

How is that or a re-write? --OuroborosCobra ^talk 04:03, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Binary Matrix?

I overheard Chakotay mentioning in episode Scorpion Part 1, that Species 8472's computer cores use a base-2 (binary) computer systems that we have. Is it possible that an organic construct like this (if it is like a brain) even needs a primitive binary system? Our brains use lots of neurotransmitters to convey information, and surely Species 8472 has very, very advanced technology, but I didn't expect that they would be this primitive, and use a base-2 (1,0) system. However, given that it is organic, perhaps signal travel faster and is more organised like in a bio-neural gel pack. – The preceding unsigned comment was added by 216.73.65.62.

Smell?

Well, why does the presence of nostrils imply a sense of smell. Always remember: "Not all species have their testicles at the same place!" ;-) – The preceding unsigned comment was added by Breen (talk • contribs).

Actually, the correct line is "Not everyone keeps their genitals in the same place, Captain." ;) --From Andoria with Love 17:33, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Acually, that was just a guess. I only know the German version ;-) Breen 18:44, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

I agree. Nostrils are only indicative of respiration, not olfactory perception.--User:Malignus

Anatomy

"They have very little soft tissue, and much of their skeleton is exposed, particularly around their necks" Some problems:

1) "Very little" is a relative statement, meaningless without a point of reference.

2) How do they have "little soft tissue"? They seem to have muscles and organs and blood like any other life-form.

3) Assuming they have a skeleton, it is quite definitely not exposed.

--149.159.1.199 00:03, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

2nd paragraph doesn't make sense

"Species 8472 was forced to retreat when the crew of the USS Voyager armed warheads with modified nanoprobes capable of destroying their bioships...." when the USS Voyager did what? Gramatically incorrect. --88.211.114.222 14:55, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Um, they did that in "Scorpion, Part II". It was kind of the point of that episode. What is the problem? --OuroborosCobra ^talk 15:21, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

That's not his issue OC. He's missing that the action verb in the sentence is "armed". It's not an adjective or a modifier. It's the verb. Ergo, "the USS Voyager armed warheads." -- Sulfur 15:27, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Alone?

I removed the following sentence:

It is not even known for a certainity that no other beings share their realm.

which was recently added, as Kes clearly says in VOY: "Scorpion":

They come from a place where they're alone. Nothing else lives there.

--Jörg 08:57, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

Pronunciation of "species".

Pretty much everyone I know says "spee-sheez", but almost everyone on Voyager says "spee-seez". Were they actually told to pronounce it this way? It sounds affected and non-standard. Avengah 22:22, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

Probably just accent, I've always said "spee-seez" and most people I know say it that way as well. Picard pronounces everything with an English accent, "shed-u-el" vs "sked-u-el". (schedule: I that everyone understands this) I doubt it's anything more than that. --Morder 22:26, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

Fair enough. I'm sure I noticed a few people saying "spee-sheez" in earlier episodes, but then the same people were saying "spee-seez" in later episodes. That's why I think maybe they were TOLD to say it that way. Avengah 22:33, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

Biologists and other scientists don't say it with "sh". It's also one of those Commonwealth/Yankee English differences - the English even say "special" without "sh", they say "spessial". At least the well-schooled ones, anyway. SennySix 21:29, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

I'm English, and I don't know ANYONE who says "spessial". Maybe really posh people might, but even then they probably don't. Avengah 02:19, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

In reference to the original question by Avengah: for what it's worth, as far back as I can remember I've pronounced the word "spee-seez". I can't remember ever saying "spee-sheez" (until today). If it matters, I'm American, from the west coast, in case anyone's tracking such things... :) - Beerslayer 23:06, September 29, 2011 (UTC)

ARTWORK

Please get artwork that is full, completely full right down to the third leg and foot!!!!70.138.28.231 20:10, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

Star Trek Online

There is a Loading Tip where is explicitly explained that the "Undine" are formerly known as "Species 8472" in the open beta of Star Trek Online. I will add a citation or link as soon as I found any. --Gemberkoekje 20:59, January 14, 2010 (UTC)

I have a screenshot showing some dialogue with a Klingon saying 8472 is the Undine here: http://www.arksark.org/blog/2010/01/15/star-trek-online-open-beta-liveblog-bonanza-part-5/ - Arkenor

It STO: Beta one of the splash screens says that a captured Species 8472 revieled that they are called Undine to Starfleet Intellegence.

219.90.160.158 11:10, January 29, 2010 (UTC)

Is STO canon? Unfortunately, the answer to that is, no it is not. I will place this information into Background information.--Obey the Fist!! 20:21, February 25, 2010 (UTC)

Italianajt, StarTrek Online is in fact cannon. Please keep in mind people, whether it is officially cannon or not, Species 8472 is called Undine in Star Trek Online... and let us remember what is generally accepted as cannon usuallyt becomes cannon. – The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.243.42.88.

That isn't how canon has ever worked, no, and STO isn't canon. It isn't cannon either, you can't shoot someone with it. --OuroborosCobra ^talk 06:23, May 2, 2010 (UTC)

Quite correct. Things do not become canon just because people want it to be. The fact is that STO is not canon(or cannon). Case closed. Nothing else needs to be said.--31dot 07:49, May 2, 2010 (UTC)

STO is a cannon? Never would have thought that, I thought it was a game. An mysterious unsigned commentator from beyond the stars, it still isn't a canon publication. --Obey the Fist!! 16:27, May 4, 2010 (UTC)

Undine vs. Species 8472

As stated above and in Memory Alpha's canon policy Star Trek games are not considered true canon. I have reverted all changes of 8472 to undine back to the designation number.--Obey the Fist!! 20:27, February 25, 2010 (UTC)

I added a note up top telling people not to change it. Just so they don't miss it. --Golden Monkey 21:03, February 25, 2010 (UTC)

I saw! Bitte Schoen!--Obey the Fist!! 21:12, February 25, 2010 (UTC)

PNA

The PNA-inaccurate templates in the article were removed by an anon user, restored by Cobra, and then removed again with the statement "there's nothing wrong". Does anyone know what exactly was inaccurate about the article? Or was is OK to remove them? It seems OK to me, but I thought I'd ask.--31dot 09:51, April 1, 2010 (UTC)

Those sections have information from a bg-source mixed up with canon information as you can see from the cites in the section. --Pseudohuman 10:23, April 1, 2010 (UTC)

So why not get rid of the BG info from the article and move it to the background section like its supposed to be? I'd do it myself but I don't know which one is from the BG source. --70.176.184.44 07:51, April 3, 2010 (UTC)

Same here. --Pseudohuman 15:25, April 3, 2010 (UTC)

Species 8472 population

I have been trying to find any material regarding the amount of member the 8472 race has. Now i know none of the episodes containing 8472 directly refers to the quantity of members their race has but extrapolating from canon information we could say they exist in vast numbers.

7 of 9 said 8472 were the apex of biological evolution, now obviously we have to take that and add to the end "that the Borg have met so far". We also know that their universe has no planets or suns ect.

Kes said they were the only advanced life form in their universe.

So we have a race that has seemingly been evolving for a huge amount of time, that has a vast area to expand and has no natural predators.

They also seemed to feel that they could invade and wipe out all life or at least a lot of life in our galaxy, of course this could be considered propaganda or hyperbole but it should be included with that provision.

Anyway i would say it is reasonable to assume they have an immense population.

– Kor Dahar Master 14:22, October 15, 2010 (UTC)

Yes, very reasonable. -Angry Future Romulan 14:57, October 15, 2010 (UTC)

It is also just as reasonable to suggest that likely have a small population. After all, in a universe with no planets or stars, then it's difficult to live in a specific place, so to travel around, they have to be in "armadas", and we only ever saw a few vessels of theirs. -- sulfur 15:06, October 15, 2010 (UTC)

On the contrary, when Voyager first met species 8472, when they wanted to cross borg space, there were vast numbers of spacecraft in the section that was dubbed the Northwest Passage, and that was shown in the show. Specifically, when they found the quantum singularity. "I'm detecting 133 bioships. More are approaching." -Tuvok(VOY: Scorpion part 1) 69.245.92.145 19:50, May 6, 2011 (UTC)Kiden

Each of those being very small. 133 ships carrying only a few people is a smaller population than most villages. --OuroborosCobra ^talk 03:18, May 7, 2011 (UTC)

Resemblance to Edosians?

Am I the only person here to have noticed somewhat of a resemblance between Species 8472 and the Edosian called Arex from ST:TAS? Could they be (distantly) related species? (Yes, I know TAS is not considered canon, but the similarity was to me striking enough to be worth mentioning...) -- Beerslayer 22:14, September 27, 2011 (UTC)

TAS is canon. But no. Don't really see it. -- sulfur 22:32, September 27, 2011 (UTC)

TAS is considered canon here, Beerslayer, but not always in other sites and sources. I can see the resemblance; they're both tripodal. Any info about whether they are or are not biologically related species would be speculative (unless there's a citation for it), so wouldn't be allowed. --Defiant 00:45, September 28, 2011 (UTC)

OK, my bad. I seem to remember that one previous visit, probably months if not years ago, the debate was still raging wildly over whether TAS was considered canon or not. I admit I didn't check it out this time. As for speculation, I thought that was one of the reasons this talk page existed!  :) -- Beerslayer 23:09, September 29, 2011 (UTC)

Any out-of-universe link with Star Wars (expanded) "Yuuzhan Vong" species?

The fact that Species 8472 and their ships are so biologically-based reminds me of the "Yuuzhan Vong" species in the Star Wars Expanded Universe (which I personally never could get into - too dark and depressing it seemed..) Is there any reference for some kind of out-of-universe link between the two ideas? Jswitte (talk) 03:35, October 23, 2013 (UTC)

I doubt it. Species 8472 seems to just be an amalgamation of several common scifi tropes. Personally I felt that the incorporation of species 8472 to the trek universe was mostly influenced by the mysterious Vorlons and Shadows from Babylon 5 that was the other popular scifi-series during the same time as Voyager in the late 90s. --Pseudohuman (talk) 04:42, October 23, 2013 (UTC)

These look like Predator, fluidic space makes me think of wraiths.

Anyone else think these look like a Predator? Imagine a Predator that moves like the wraith's from Oblivion, and that would be about right, not the friendliest from the sounds of it, not the deadliest either. A manifestation of some kind, real sentience or a projected illusion across our dimension? Just wondering about how these things can exist in fluidic and real space, did VOY have the CGI to do it properly at the time? Would love to see the originator of this incarnation of this idea's opinions on that. 182.48.144.120 13:41, April 8, 2014 (UTC)WarPig

If you want to discuss a particular aspect of Star Trek, I suggest you use the Forum. Talk pages are for improvements of the articles themselves. --| TrekFan ^{Open a channel} 13:51, April 8, 2014 (UTC)

Real Name Of The Species

I believe the true name of species 8472 should be called Fluidians. You know, from the term fluidic space. Catchy, huh?

-Tuesday May 6 2014-~~Rennan Barim Mantes~~ – The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.97.29.2‎.

You can think what you'd like, but they've been named in non-canon materials as the "undine", and never named in canon materials. -- sulfur (talk) 15:13, May 6, 2014 (UTC)