Memory Alpha
Register
Memory Alpha
(→‎Meaning of Title: "usually" != "always". Schism = split or rift.)
Line 48: Line 48:
 
::::Hellraiser hasn't been mentioned as the source of the title before. Schism is just a name they chose for the episode. As "schism" is a synonym of rift or split, it fits the episode perfectly, with all those subspace rifts in there. --[[User:Jörg|Jörg]] 17:20, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
 
::::Hellraiser hasn't been mentioned as the source of the title before. Schism is just a name they chose for the episode. As "schism" is a synonym of rift or split, it fits the episode perfectly, with all those subspace rifts in there. --[[User:Jörg|Jörg]] 17:20, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
 
:::::Amen, brother. [[User:SwishyGarak|SwishyGarak]] 19:53, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
 
:::::Amen, brother. [[User:SwishyGarak|SwishyGarak]] 19:53, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
  +
::::::Come on, Federation! Do you think Jörg is making it up? Fine, if you are not willing to take his word for it, why don't you ask your own self why you included the word "usually" in your (now removed) Background Note? Why don't you ask the same question [[wikipedia:Schism (religion)| over at Wikipedia]], which has basically identical definition? If it's not '''always''', but merely '''usually''', used in the context of organizations, religious and otherwise, then what context suits the remainder beyond "usually"? Get this: Unless you reject the "usually" qualifier, you must gather that '''sometimes''' "schism" is used in the context of something else besides an organization that has split or rifted apart. Why? Because it's a generic word, though today its use beyond churches has become fairly uncommon, now that the most famous "[[wikipedia:East-West Schism|Schism]]" in the history of the world has substantially defined Western and Near-Eastern culture for nearly 1000 years. Still, you can do 30 seconds' worth of creative Googling with terms like "geology" or "ideology" to find "schism" used in contexts not remotely related to churches or any other kind of human social organizational structures. You asked a question and got some answers. If you have to argue with people about it, to the point of expressing doubt over their integrity, then I question whether you're actually here to satisfy curiosity. For whatever my own opinion is worth, I think the episode title is so self-evident that to explain it under "Background" would be like explaining the title of "Encounter at Farpoint": ''"Someone, in this case the Enterprise's crew, went to Farpoint, which is a place described in the article above, and while they were there, at Farpoint, they had an encounter, which is a way of saying that they... encountered. Something. Or, mebbe someone. At Farpoint. The encounter was not at Earth nor at Vulcan. What happened at FarPoint was not a cricket match, but actually an encounter. But not a "hot date" either. Oh, my goodness, this Background explanation is not doing the trick... HELP!"'' [[User:SwishyGarak|SwishyGarak]] 20:52, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Revision as of 20:52, 18 April 2008

Episode talk page

Maintenance links

  • T: I AM ERROR
  • A: I AM ERROR
  • N: I AM ERROR
  • P: I AM ERROR
  • C: I AM ERROR
  • CP: I AM ERROR
  • CR: I AM ERROR
  • CT: I AM ERROR
  • D: I AM ERROR
  • M: I AM ERROR
  • Y: I AM ERROR


"Too Smart" Holodeck?

When the abducted party was in the holodeck speculating about the nature of the table in the alien laboratory, the holodeck makes a lot of unwarranted assumptions about the changes. When Worf instructs that the table be merely 20% smaller and inclined, the holodeck replaces the table with an entirely different model. When Troi tells it to make the table metal, it is replaced with yet another entirely different model. The holodeck seemed able to improvise. It seems unlikely, but perhaps this was done to contrast the subplot, where Data (an emotionless machine, like the holodeck) was unable to "improvise" enough to make his poetry expressive, while the holodeck has somehow achieved this level. I would guess that these "problems" are due to the need to use the props available to production, but surely TNG had a big enough budget to produce a few tables for a single episode. Mal7798 19:51, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Yes, this left me a little confused too. Perhaps it was because the computer was limited to the 5000 odd tables it had on file and was actually choosing the closest match it had rather than creating an entirely new table. Aside from that, I guess we can assume the computer did improvise. It certainly was neccessary to accelerate the plot, as a lot of screen time was wasted on this scene already and they needed to do everything they could to speed it along. Federation 19:42, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
Since the canonical implications of this can be washed away by (insert technobabble retcon #47), I must ask why bother worrying about it? This is one of those things where if you're "one of those people" nothing anyone could say to rationalize it will be okay, and if you're "one of *THOSE* people" you're equally imperturbable, because you just don't care. Its a loaded question that only leads to disagreement without possible consensus. If it helps, just tell yourself "A Wizard Did It". Hossrex 08:44, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Meaning of Title

Doesn't the word schism mean a theological split in the church? How is it relevant to this story? Federation 19:44, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

All it means is "split", that's the reason why it is used to describe the splitting of the church. There's no inherent meaning that has to do with churches. In this episode, space or subspace is creating splits or being split. SwishyGarak 20:40, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

I have never heard the term schism used outside of a religious context. Also where is subspace being split? Based on the dialogue it would seem that subspace domains are being combined. In any case I think this needs to be put in the article because its not obvious. Federation 23:43, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Unfortunately there doesn't appear to be any information on why the title was chosen in the Star Trek: The Next Generation Companion (which explains some of the unusual titles such as "Silicon Avatar"). Wiktionary defines schism as a split in an organisation, usually a church. Anyone with additional insight into this ep's title?– Cleanse 01:19, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Personally I'd like to see all the episode titles explained in the articles, but there seems to be little consensus to do so. Federation 07:39, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

To put it into a context Star Trek fans should understand... consider the phrase "canon". Its a word that has a specific meaning, usually within the context of religion. Although religious implication is the most common usage of the phrase, doesn't mean its improper to use in other contexts. Hossrex 09:06, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
I'm not really sure what you mean by that comment Federation. I don't recall anyone saying that unusual episode titles shouldn't be explained. Nor do I understand why someone would object. Off the top of my head, I can think of many other episode titles explained in their background information: see "Treachery, Faith and the Great River", "Doctor Bashir, I Presume", all episodes with Latin titles and "Silicon Avatar". Furthermore, I don't see anyone saying that the meaning of "Schisms" can't be added.– Cleanse 09:31, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Found it! Schism used in this way is a reference to Hellraiser! Federation 12:34, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

What's the source for that statement? --Jörg 13:40, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Look up Hellraiser. Its the only other work of fiction that uses the word in a way remotely similar to the ep title. Gotta be it. Federation 14:12, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, but that's not enough. As has been mentioned before, schism has other meanings as well, it can also mean "breach" or "tear in a fabric", and that fits the subspace rifts seen in the episode much better. I'm removing the background note. --Jörg 14:20, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Removed:

  • The word Schism refers to a split in an organisation, usually a theological divide of a church. The use of the word for the title to the episode is a tribute to Hellraiser at Wikipedia where the portals opened to hell are referred to as a schism, which in the case of the movie is probably religious irony. The irony is of course loss here because no religious themes are presented.

--Jörg 14:21, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Well if you want to be like, give me a reference to the word schism being used outside of the social science domain. Other than Hellraiser, references to the word schism being used this way are not forthcoming. If its not a reference to hellraiser then WHAT IS IT? Federation 14:37, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

A random word of the english language? :) See: [1] -- Cid Highwind 14:42, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Yes, yes. I've already looked it up on dictionary.com . I see nothing there to indicate it could be used as a tear in fabric. Also, the way it was used in Hellraiser is just to close to be coincidence. (I don't believe in coincidence.) If it were used this way in Star Wars rather than Hellraiser we wouldn't even be having this discussion. Federation 14:57, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

The "tear in fabric" reference is from my Webster's dictionary, sitting right next to me. It has nothing to do with Hellraiser, we would do the same if it would seem to be a reference from Star Wars. As long as it is unsourced, it's gotta go as it would only be speculation. --Jörg 15:06, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

What is the edition of the dictionary? Can you find a reference online? Federation 15:43, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

It's from Webster's Third New International Dictionary, unabridged. ISBN 3-8290-5292-8. --Jörg 15:56, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Does anyone else have this edition who can confirm this? Also, you say this Hellraiser connection has come up before? Has it? I didn't see any discussion on this episode's title until a few days ago, do you? Federation 16:32, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Hellraiser hasn't been mentioned as the source of the title before. Schism is just a name they chose for the episode. As "schism" is a synonym of rift or split, it fits the episode perfectly, with all those subspace rifts in there. --Jörg 17:20, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
Amen, brother. SwishyGarak 19:53, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
Come on, Federation! Do you think Jörg is making it up? Fine, if you are not willing to take his word for it, why don't you ask your own self why you included the word "usually" in your (now removed) Background Note? Why don't you ask the same question over at Wikipedia, which has basically identical definition? If it's not always, but merely usually, used in the context of organizations, religious and otherwise, then what context suits the remainder beyond "usually"? Get this: Unless you reject the "usually" qualifier, you must gather that sometimes "schism" is used in the context of something else besides an organization that has split or rifted apart. Why? Because it's a generic word, though today its use beyond churches has become fairly uncommon, now that the most famous "Schism" in the history of the world has substantially defined Western and Near-Eastern culture for nearly 1000 years. Still, you can do 30 seconds' worth of creative Googling with terms like "geology" or "ideology" to find "schism" used in contexts not remotely related to churches or any other kind of human social organizational structures. You asked a question and got some answers. If you have to argue with people about it, to the point of expressing doubt over their integrity, then I question whether you're actually here to satisfy curiosity. For whatever my own opinion is worth, I think the episode title is so self-evident that to explain it under "Background" would be like explaining the title of "Encounter at Farpoint": "Someone, in this case the Enterprise's crew, went to Farpoint, which is a place described in the article above, and while they were there, at Farpoint, they had an encounter, which is a way of saying that they... encountered. Something. Or, mebbe someone. At Farpoint. The encounter was not at Earth nor at Vulcan. What happened at FarPoint was not a cricket match, but actually an encounter. But not a "hot date" either. Oh, my goodness, this Background explanation is not doing the trick... HELP!" SwishyGarak 20:52, 18 April 2008 (UTC)