|Past and special-purpose discussions related to this article can be found on the following subpages:|
For general discussion on this subject, visit the forums at The Trek BBS.
FA status Edit
FA removal (March 2005, Success) Edit
Romulan - this is still lacking a lot of info from DS9 and ENT. At least I think so, can't really be sure because I have no idea where half of the info is coming from as very little is cited. Tyrant 17:05, 5 Mar 2005 (GMT)Tyrant
- Support; for precisely the same reasons. || THOR 17:42, 5 Mar 2005 (GMT)
- This was the original featured article, I'm not sure it ever should have been in the first place. A lot of what I read in there seems to be pretty "fluffed" up (ie: caste system?). --Gvsualan 20:10, 5 Mar 2005 (GMT)
"Beta Quadrant race" is apocrypha at best, it seems Edit
The only reference that Romulans are a "Beta Quadrant race" as stated in the first paragaph seems to be "the non-canon Star Trek Encyclopedia" as stated in Beta Quadrant. Can anyone say: Is it warranted to retain this statement in non-apocryphal article sections? What canon info, if any, justifies keeping it where it is? 184.108.40.206 20:52, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
- Actually, there was a display that is or will be sold on It's A Wrap! sale and auction that clearly shows the Romulans and Klingons in the Beta Quadrant. --Alan del Beccio 00:26, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
- That display cannot be considered canon, certainly not to the point where it overrides the numerous times on DS9 and VOY that it was clearly stated that the Romulans were an Alpha Quadrant race. I agree with the anonymous poster.--Antodav 21:09, July 20, 2010 (UTC)
- What is it with reviving all those zombie discussions? In any case, it is (and has been for a long time) our policy to consider Okudagram-type stuff "valid information" in full detail, as long as the Okudagram itself has been spotted in an episode or movie. So, the basic question, and one I'd like to see proof uploaded for myself, is: was that Okudagram visible, or was it not?
- If it was just created for the movie, but not visibly used, then we must not rely on its information. On the other hand, if it has been seen, then we must not drop its information just because it seems to conflict with other information. Instead, we should note both, and let the reader beware.
- As an aside, keep in mind that a political entity can be considered to belong to geographical location X even if its capital is located in the neighbouring Y - see Turkey and its possible future European Union membership for just one realworld example. -- Cid Highwind 11:27, July 21, 2010 (UTC)
- I don't know whether the Okudagram was visible on screen or not... but I'm interested in hearing about these "numerous times on DS9 and VOY that it was clearly stated that the Romulans were an Alpha Quadrant race." Off-hand, I can't remember any. Does anyone have a specific quote? —Josiah Rowe 18:31, July 21, 2010 (UTC)
- In DS9: "Visionary", the Romulan Ruwon says, "The Dominion represents one of the greatest threats to the Alpha Quadrant in the last century." That might seem to suggest that the Romulans are an Alpha Quadrant species, but it's far from conclusive. —Josiah Rowe 01:17, July 22, 2010 (UTC)
Weren't romulans in TOS stuck with non-warp ships while the ones in ENT had warp 5 ships?
I'm puzzled by the article stating that the theory that both Vulcans and Romulans are descendants of Sargon's people is contradicted by the discovery of ancient humanoid progenitors. (TNG: "The Chase")
The ancient humanoid progenitors seeded DNA across the galaxy, that lead to new species developing. And explaining why there is such broad biological compatibility between sentient species in the Star Trek universe. This does not contradict Sargon's people carrying out later seedings of their own. – The preceding unsigned comment was added by 220.127.116.11 (talk).
- Perhaps Sargon's people are descendants of the ancient humanoids. – The preceding unsigned comment was added by 18.104.22.168 (talk).
I expect this to be considered apocrypha, but in the novel "My Enemy, My Ally" there is sizable mention that the term "Romulan" is actually a human designation, and that the Romulans call themselves and their language "Rihansu", and are actually pleasantly surprised when someone refers to them that way without the use of a translator. IMO (and I admit I am only a guest, so I won't edit the article), this should at least get a passing mention.
I probably shouldn't have just deleted a paragraph without raising it as a talking point, so I understand that someone added it back (slightly modified). I do still take issue with the following:
- "Further confusion comes from the statement of Sub Commander T'pol that "we evolved for life on this planet". (ENT: "The Forge") It is still possible that Sargon's people travelled to Vulcan and interbred with the native population, however no canon data exists to support this theory."
I don't know that T'Pol's comments have any relevance to the topic, and retconned "possibilities" have no place on Memory Alpha, especially when followed with the statement "however no canon data exists to support this theory". Memory Alpha, unless I'm greatly mistaken, has a mandate to catalog what is canon, and leave everything else to places like Memory Beta, and that other Expanded Universe wiki. I initially probably shouldn't have trimmed as much as I did from this part of the page. I admit that, and wont argue for the removal of any besides this sentence I've quoted, but admittedly non-canon speculation has no barring here. Hossrex 22:57, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
- The whole section of ancient origins is a bit controversial, as Spock never directly stated what he actually theorized the Sargon's race involvement on Vulcan prehistory might have been. Was it just a brief colonization that created a cultural interference, were they the gods worshipped by early Vulcans, was it interbreeding, or that they actually became the Vulcan race by cutting ties with their homeworld and regressing to a much more primitive culture that later on turned their back to their roots. It's all speculation. You could also say that the ancient humanoids created or more accurately might have created vulcans, but you could put that fact redundantly in every damn article about any human-like race in all of Memory Alpha over and over again too. We can only say for certain about the planets where the ancient humanoids left a piece of their holo-program message behind and was found as a part of all lifeforms there, which I don't believe Vulcan was ever mentioned to be one, as any other humanoid race could be a later transplant, genetically engineered, result of an alien abduction and so on and so forth. --Pseudohuman 00:18, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
But at the least, shouldn't we all be able to agree that language like "possibly", and "although no canon evidence exists" have no place on Memory Alpha? Regarding the Proto-Humanoids leaving a piece of their holo-program on Vulcan... I'd taken it as a given that since its very well received (if not also slightly controversial) that Romulans came directly from Vulcans, and since the Proto-Humanoids were like a Billion years previous, it seems canon would support it actually having been Vulcan that the Proto-Humanoids seeded, and only the Romulans by defacto. I admit I haven't watched the TOS episode where this originating line came from in ages (although I have seen it), so maybe I'll give it a reviewing. However, whichever side I fall on upon seeing the episode, Memory Alpha is a resource archiving all Canon information regarding the Star Trek universe. "Maybes", "possiblys", and "perhaps" are clearly against what MA is trying to do. Hossrex 01:33, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
- I agree with the deletion of any personal theories and assumptions. Canon in fact does not support that Vulcan or Romulus or even Remus for that matter was a seeded world as such, it only supports that all humanoids come into existance directly or indirectly from "the seed code". It does not mean any planet that has humanoid life is a seeded planet, as any life can be artificially created and transplanted. Only planets we know for sure to be in the list of planets directly seeded by the Ancients are Earth, Loren 3, Ruah 4, Indri 8 and Vilmor 2 as they were aligned with each other with the holomessage pieces embedded in the seed DNA. There were several humanoids on the Enterprise who didn't have a piece of the holomessage in their DNA, even though they obviously had "the seed code". There is off course the starmap computer display screen in "The Chase" with all the worlds, that are in alignment, with a holomessage piece, but I have not found a readable version, or information on it. --Pseudohuman 15:28, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
- I note that no one saw that the paragraph in question was formatted as a Background note. There are examples all over the board where background notes are used to note and discuss discrepancies and attempt to reconcile them, which is what I did here...Capt Christopher Donovan 05:52, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
Just because we didn't think that was a good enough excuse, doesn't mean we didn't realize it was formatted as a background note. Just because something is formatted as a background note, shouldn't mean you can propose any coo-coo-ca-ca crazy ideas. Regardless of the circumstance, no idea on Memory Alpha should ever be followed by no canon data exists to support this theory. If no canon data exists to support the theory, it shouldn't even be a background note. Its just one persons assumption/rationalization/inference at that point, and entirely against what Memory Alpha has set out to do. It shouldn't even be required to explain why the phrase no canon data exists to support this theory doesn't belong on Memory Alpha. Hossrex 23:08, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
- Then there are a LOT of articles that are in serious need of editing, because that sort of thing (noting contradictions and suggesting a harmonization between them) is in a whole RAFT of them. At the very least, T'pol's comment SHOULD remain as a background note, because she DID say that and the contradiction should be noted.Capt Christopher Donovan 06:30, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
Simply because there are a lot, doesn't mean we shouldn't tackle the issues as they arise. Like all big problems, you can either get intimidated by the problem, or deal with them one at a time. My issue isn't that we're addressing a contradiction, my problem is the following line.
- "It is still possible that Sargon's people travelled to Vulcan and interbred with the native population, however no canon data exists to support this theory."
That sentence has no baring on canon. Its purely speculative, and admits as much following the coma. You can note that Spock said one thing about the Ancient Origin, and you can note that T'Pol said something different about Ancient Origin, but we shouldn't be ascribing any sort of rationalization between the two. If I thought Q did it, would I be justified in adding that? Obviously not. If I thought it was related to the Preservers would I be justified in adding that? Not really. Memory Alpha is very specific about what its trying to do. Retcons, and fan rationalizations are beyond that purpose. Hossrex 19:00, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
Romulus & Remus Edit
Brothers - the mythical forefathers of Rome. The makers of TOS chose the name Romulus for the race to have a romanesque feel to it. Years later Beavis & Butthead made Nemesis and chose Remus for the name of Romulus' closest neighbour. Cute. Mentioned on any of the pages related to Romulus and Romulans? 22.214.171.124 10:35, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
- I doubt it, and it shouldn't be, because it is not relevant to Star Trek. It is only relevant to Beavis & Butthead. Possibly some sort of mention might be (or should be) on the Star Trek parodies and pop culture references page, but not on the regular articles.--31dot 10:44, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
- Thanks for the clarification there. Don't know why I didn't see that before. Not thinking I guess. :)--31dot 13:54, 22 September 2008 (UTC)
Star Trek XI Edit
Regarding the newly added "endangered species comment": How could the Romulans become an endangered species when it is stated right above that "These two worlds were the foundation of an INTERSTELLAR EMPIRE THAT EXPANDED TO MANY WORLDS, reaching across some of the Beta Quadrant... (TNG: "Gambit, Part I", "Gambit, Part II"; Star Trek Nemesis)
Certainly that would mean that lots of Romulans lived off-world. One would think millions, perhaps even billions lived in some of their colonies. Are we just supposed to think that these people stopped considering themselves to be Romulans? Not likely, Romulans are true to their empire, even with their original home planet gone. Furthermore, an evacuation order was issued several days before the planet was destroyed (Star Trek Countdown #4) We don't really know whether people were evacuated or not before the star went nova. Spock couldn't really know this. He travelled back in time before the news of evacuees would be known to him.
- Following on from this comment, it seems rather unfair that the whole article currently now refers to the Romulan race in the past tense.
- That has nothing to do with the new movie. In fact, the article already was in past tense before the new movie was released, Klingon is in past tense as well. This is because of the MA:POV, which has MA written in the "distant future" and virtually everything in past tense. --OuroborosCobra talk 17:11, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
just felf like metioning that the new Star Trek film is a story re-boot!!!! and dosnt match up with the other franchises. so shouldn't this referance be in its own seperate section? 22 August 2009
- Since Nero and the other Romulans in the movie are from the previously established Star Trek timeline, the answer is no. As the writers have established, the Romulus we have seen in TNG, etc. is the same Romulus we see destroyed in this movie. Nero is from the timeline where everything from TOS through Nemesis still happened. His arrival into the past created an alternate timeline in which the new movie takes place. So, no, anything related to the Romulans from Nero's original timeline should not be separated for being of a different continuity, because it isn't. --From Andoria with Love 10:08, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
- No matter how far the Romulan Empire may have expanded, the destruction of Romulus itself would most certainly render the species endangered. Most of the Romulan Empire probably consists of alien worlds conquered by the Romulans, as is the case with the Klingon Empire or the Federation for that matter. If Earth was destroyed, humans would be endangered as well, since somewhere close to 10 billion of them would be wiped out all at once. Most colonies seem to have populations of only a few thousand, or at the most several million. That does not compare to the billions that typically make up the population of a major race's homeworld. I would wager that no more than 10-20% of the human, Klingon, or Romulan populations actually live(d) off of Earth/Qo'nos/Romulus, including those serving in Starfleet/the KDF/the Romulan military.
- And also I think the writer of the unsigned comment is misremembering STXI, since it was the Vulcans who were explicitly said to be "endangered" following the events of that movie, not the Romulans (although they most likely certainly were as well in the Prime Reality).--Antodav 21:20, July 20, 2010 (UTC)
"Jolan Tru" Edit
- Obviously we don't know what it means because it was never stated. It could mean 'aloha' but it could also me something like 'peace to you' which may be a common greeting or 'watch your back' since we're talking about romulans. — Morder 12:36, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
- And ...it was both a greeting and a departure comment, like aloha. --Alan 16:38, November 18, 2009 (UTC)
Relations with vulcans Edit
Just seen TOS: The Enterprise Incident and the unnamed romulan commander states that the romulans have high regards to the vulcans. However, this article doesnt seem to reflect this. Maybe later canon sources claimed the oposite (and thats quite understandable), but shouldnt we at least acknolowdge this? From her reaction towards "spock's betrayal", I belive she was telling the truth on this (and in fact, she wouldnt fall for spock if Romulans disregarded Vulcans as inferior). 126.96.36.199 NeoStrider
"Browless Romulans" paragraph Edit
Shouldn't the part that states that "browless Romulans seem to be confined to the 23. century" be removed? Nero is not from the 23. century, and all members of his crew are browless. As for the speculation about brow/ no brow comment: It's just that, pure speculation... Others claim the brow is just "fashion" and caused by carving marks in their forehead. IMO speculation should be removed, or else all different versions of why some Romulans have brows should be mentioned... – The preceding unsigned comment was added by 188.8.131.52 (talk).
Remus destruction in STXI? Edit
I don't know what the canonical basis is for the statement that Remus was also "presumably" destroyed by the supernova in STXI. For all we know, Remus might have been orbiting on the opposite side of the Romulan sun at the moment the supernova destroyed Romulus and therefore remained intact, since Spock apparently stopped the supernova immediately after Romulus was destroyed. I believe that comment should be removed unless someone can offer up some support for it. After all, the destruction of Romulus would create a power vacuum that, if their homeworld still exists, the Remans would most likely be very eager to fill, assuming they were not re-subjugated after Nemesis.--Antodav 21:29, July 20, 2010 (UTC)
- It's true that we can't assume that Remus was destroyed in the supernova; but we can't assume that it survived either. We just don't know either way, and the articles shouldn't tip the scales one way or the other. —Josiah Rowe 19:14, July 21, 2010 (UTC)
- Agreed. -Angry Future Romulan 20:10, July 21, 2010 (UTC)
Impact on the USS VoyagerEdit
Why was this addition deleted? It was detailed, relevant to Romulan history and accurate on all counts. I deserve an explanation. I don't mind putting it back, but I do need to know why it was scrapped. – The preceding unsigned comment was added by 184.108.40.206 (talk).
- I did say"that's not really relevant to this article" in the edit summary, which is viewable in the page history and the recent changes page until it drops off the end. As for why it isn't relevant: it's about Voyager first and foremost; it has no bearing on Romulan history or culture in the grand scheme of things, beyond "the Romulans always having an interest in Voyager", which is negligible, also, it was all from Voyager's POV instead of the Romulans. The much more in-depth article Romulan history should at least mention it, but not in the amount of detail the Voyager article does/should, since it was a minor, if interesting blip to the Romulans but a very important event for Voyager. - Archduk3 01:58, September 4, 2010 (UTC)
Very well, I will re-write this under the section of Romulan history.