I didn't get a word of what this article said, and I have quite a history in theoretical physics. Could someone make it a bit more readable? -- Redge 10:41, 15 Jun 2004 (CEST)
- I also have a physics background and that was painful to read. It could be a great article but completely lacks any real information. That's why I added a PNA. --Sloan47 07:17, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
- Ok, I'm going to take a crack at it. I'm more an astronomer than a physicist... but still. PrognosisNegative 17:10, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
Didn't Defiant Crossover?Edit
Not to be too persnickity, but Defiant did crossover (along with her departed crew), thus affecting the course of history in the mirror universe. Of course, it may not have been "reported" in the primary universe, but it certainly recorded in the mirror universe history. At least those are my thoughts. --GNDN 15:34, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
- Ah, well, yes, the first reported crossover from the mirror universe view is the Defiant, but from "our" universe pov, the first reported encounter was in "Mirror, Mirror". So it made sense to state that "our" first reported encounter was in 2267. --From Andoria with Love 16:52, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
- Yeah, when I was writing this I was going to refer to "Mirror, Mirror" as the first crossover, but than as I read about In a Mirror, Darkly, i saw that they had taken a ship from our universe. How did they get the "Defiant" to the mirror universe anyway? PrognosisNegative 20:07, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
- It's all explained at USS Defiant; basically, the mirror universe Tholians detonated a tricobalt device, creating a tear in subspace, and set up a distress signal to lure in ships from the other universe, which they would then capture. The Defiant fell for the ruse and upon answering the distress call, the ship entered a period of spatial interphase during which most of the crew were driven insane and killed each other (as seen in TOS: "Mirror, Mirror"), and the ship was ultimately pulled into the mirror universe where it was captured by the Tholians. It should be noted, however, that there has been no evidence to suggest that anyone in the "prime universe" had learned of the Defiant's fate. --From Andoria with Love 20:13, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
- Ok, sounds good to me. 2267 it is. --PrognosisNegative 20:18, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
The Alternative FactorEdit
Didn't the TOS episode "The Alternative Factor" have something like an anti-matter universe? tHe anti-Lazarus had to have come from somewhere. – The preceding unsigned comment was added by 126.96.36.199 (talk).
Is there really a difference? Edit
Let's go with a scenario. A person in say, the 29th century is presented with the opportunity to timetravel, altering the universe. They chose not to time travel. However:
- Theoretically, there are an infinite number of parallel universes, one for every possible outcome of every possible event that occurs throughout time.
Therefore, 'theoretically', there is an alternate universe where they chose to. In doing so, they altered the coarse of history.
- A parallel universe (or an alternate universe) is a separate and self-contained universe existing as consequence of different choices
Therefore, by the above definition, this new timeline is an 'alternate universe' because it is a 'universe existing as consequence of different choices'. Lets scrap that and continue to the definition of a
- An alternate timeline is created by time travel
So, this scenario is also defined as an 'alternate timeline'.
However, this is contradicted by:
- Alternate timelines differ from parallel universes.
Shouldn't this say that an alternate timeline is a subset of a alternate universe, as the time-travel is the outcome in a distinct alternate universe, making the alternate timeline contained to this one universe (or multiple universes) that led to the time travel?
I propose that an alternate timeline be defined in this article as an alternate timeline where the differing decision/outcome impacts time-travel.--10nitro 23:49, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
- It really depends on who is defining the terms I think... Many scifi writers seem to use the terms alternate timeline and parallel universe to mean the same thing. Even Bob Orci uses both terms interchangeable in regards to Star Trek. Thus its kinda redundant to seperate the information into seperate articles, unless someone can give better evidence that there really is a difference. Even then it would seem that some Star Trek writers see no difference between the terms.188.8.131.52 22:56, 29 December 2008 (UTC)
- The current generation of ST writers certainly seem to think that way. Even the old guard may have: The Mirror Universe was speculated by Spock, if I remember right, to have simply bifurcated from the one we all know and love now at some point, maybe as long ago as Roman times. --TribbleFurSuit 00:01, 30 December 2008 (UTC)
Mirror Universe POVEdit
Should there be a note that the mirror universe called the Star Trek universe as we know it (The Prime Universe, as some call it, I guess) simply as "A parallel universe"? There could probably be some other notes entered here from those episodes (such as the science directorate saying they do not exist, and Archer's implication that Terran Scientist believing they in fact, do). --Terran Officer 05:51, 17 August 2008 (UTC)
Integrating Two PerspectivesEdit
Original research removed Edit
I removed the following information. It strikes me a bit as original research. If it's added back, it should be added as background info since none of this was expressly discussed in canon. --From Andoria with Love 04:31, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
- In order to explain more accurately the concept of parallel universes, one must understand that there are two primary perspectives on the concept of time in the space-time continuum and time travel:
- 1) The space-time continuum proceeds forward along a single, linear path known as a "timeline." Any alteration made by travelling backwards along said path, including the very arrival of the traveller at an earlier point, would result in causality issues (i.e., permanent changes to the timeline).
- In this perspective, the terms "alternate timeline," "alternate universe," and "parallel universe" are irrelevant. There is but a single spacetime continuum, and any changes made to it permanently alter it. Any change to the timeline which triggers a chain of events ultimately leading to said original change results in what is known as a "paradox."
- 2) The spacetime continuum is composed of an infinite number of linear paths known as "timelines" or "parallel universes" which proceed forward. Any change in any timeline results in "branching," or the creation of a new "timeline" or "parallel universe."
- In this perspective, the terms "alternate timeline," "alternate universe," and "parallel universe are interchangeable, and all apply to new linear paths branching from other paths due to changes which have occurred. Also in this perspective, because all possibilities result in new universes, and the the number of possibilities are virtually infinite, there are infinite branches. Important: in this perspective, paradoxes are not possible. Because a change to a timeline does not alter it permanently, instead creating a new timeline, a change cannot trigger a chain of events ultimately leading to said change.
- In the Voyager episode, "Year of Hell (VOY: "Year of Hell")," the first perspective is demonstrated. The Krenim scientist, Annorax, used his temporal-weapon ship to selectively purge elements from the timeline. With each selective purge, permanent alterations to the single, linear timeline were made. Were the second perspective described above demonstrated, each purge would have created a new parallel timeline.
- In the Original Series episode, "Mirror, Mirror (TOS: "Mirror, Mirror")," Captain James T. Kirk was accidentally transported to an alternate timeline which was drastically different from the one from whence he came. This demonstrates the second perspective described above, however; what particular event in which timeline caused such a diversion from Captain Kirk's own timeline is never addressed. Various novels have attempted to speculate as to the circumstances of such an event.
- In Star Trek, the Romulan vessel, Narada, travels back through time, and makes changes which which are ultimately deemed to have resulted in the creation of an alternate timeline. This demonstrates the second abovementioned perspective.
- Cool beans -- this was my first edit anyway, so I didn't expect it to fly. Is there any way to work the examples I used into the article though?
- Also, although it may be original thought, both ways of looking at time travel have been incorporated into canon -- could this be mentioned in a less "original research"-ish way, while still acknowledging that examples of each can be found throughout Star Trek? – The preceding unsigned comment was added by 184.108.40.206 (talk).
- I would say that you would need some statements from writers of the relevant episodes or someone who worked on the show stating they had these things in mind when they wrote them. Otherwise it is merely your opinion(no matter how accurate it is)--31dot 23:01, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
There is a border between Fluidic space and Normal Space located somewhere in the Alpha Quadrant. (VOY: "Unimatrix Zero, Part II")I think it was the Gamma Quadrant? September 30 2009 User:Alexlyoko13
- The episode states the border is on "the other side of the galaxy", Alpha Quadrant is the other side of the galaxy from the Delta Quadrant. --Pseudohuman 12:39, October 1, 2009 (UTC)
parallel universe episodesEdit
- There is one already - see Parallel universe episodes. :-) –Cleanse ( talk | contribs ) 09:21, September 15, 2012 (UTC)
Thanks, I guess I gonna add a link to it in this article then, it is necessary! It took me aeons to realize that the USS Defiant that had travelled through time and quantum realities was notthe DS9 Defiant!!! Thanks :DThe Tuvixean (talk) 09:24, September 15, 2012 (UTC)