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The N-word... is it really necessary? Edit

Content moved discussion from Memory_Alpha:Ten_Forward#The_N-word..._is_it_really_necessary.3F

  • I noticed the mention of the N-word in article on slang. I know that the word was referenced in that episode but is the use of it really necessary over here? I don't want this place to become a "nanny state" website but I think this goes past the line. If you do think that it's worth a reference, consider this: How about a reference for the S-word, seeing that Data said it in Star Trek: Generations? --Scimitar 01:03, 5 Sep 2005 (UTC)
Good point. Personally, I don't think the word should be used anywhere on M/A. But if it is to stay, it's better to have it as a reference on another page than giving it its own page like it originally had. But, no, I don't believe it's necessary. --From Andoria with Love 01:21, 5 Sep 2005 (UTC)
  • Well on that note, I remember Kirk using the A-Word in one of the movies. Is that in the database somewhere? Also, the D word is used all throughout TNG and DS9 along with the word Hell (If you consider that word inapropiate). Tobyk777 02:34, 5 Sep 2005 (UTC)
  • Another thing: In the article slang there are quite a few terms on the list with no definitions. I added every definition I knew, but there are still a few terms unfimilar to me. Tobyk777 02:40, 5 Sep 2005 (UTC)
  • I don't think you can compare racist/specist terms with ordinary curse words, first of all. But I actually think the "N-word" (a racist term) is remarkably akin to "spoon head" (a specist term). So, while the "N-word"'s very offensive to us in RL, I think it should be included if "spoon head" is.
Perhaps I'm off-base, but it just seems odd to me to include one term and not the other if this encyclopedia is supposed to be from the perspective of someone living in the Star Trek universe. (On that note, I also think "spoon head" should possibly be moved to the "Insults" section of "Slang".) -- Miranda Jackson (Talk) 02:56, 5 Sep 2005 (UTC)
I agree, spoon head should probably be moved. --From Andoria with Love 03:30, 5 Sep 2005 (UTC)
We should give things like Cardie the same treatment, considering it's the same idea. Since virtually the entire definition for both Cardie and spoonhead is already on the slang page, simply adding the reference should be no problem. Just out of curiosity though, if there's a clarification between insults and things that apply to groups of people, where do things like pinkskin fall? The page says it can be an insult but also even polite - maybe just things that apply to groups of people, and then further define derogatory terms. --Schrei 04:36, 5 Sep 2005 (UTC)
  • The info on the articles Pink skin, Cardie, Spoon head, Hew-mon and other similar articles should probably be merged into the slang article. Of course, if someone were to actually look for pink skin or spoon head and it redirects them to the Slang article, they may not like that. But, oh well... Truth-be-told, I think the other articles are just fine the way they are, I just didn't feel that the "N" word was necessary as its own article. For one, it was only mentioned in one episode, and that was in a vision set during the 50s; it is not actually a part of the "real" Star Trek universe. For another thing, unlike spoon head or pink skin, the N-word is a real term and one that is very likely to offend. And lastly, it is also regarded my many as a curse word, and if you'll notice, we don't have articles for Kirk's spouting of "Double dumba$$ on you" or the like. But, whatever. I'm spent. --From Andoria with Love 05:05, 5 Sep 2005 (UTC)
  • One more thing... you know, if a vandal hadn't created the N-word article in the first place, we wouldn't even be talking about this? Just thought I'd throw that out there... --From Andoria with Love 05:14, 5 Sep 2005 (UTC)

This is one of those gray areas, because while I agree that the N-word is offensive and such, it has as much relevance as anything related to Nazis that might have been referenced in "Storm Front". (I don't know if there are any such cases - I'm just using it as a hypothetical.) Anyway, I'm only going with current trends in adding the other ones to the deletion page, where I listed Hew-mon because it's not much of a "term" as much as a mispronunciation. It can be used the way that pink skin is, but since it's pronunciation rather than terminology, it's like a Cardassian going, "Shut up, Bajoran!" I genuinely believe hew-mon is a non-article. --Schrei 05:16, 5 Sep 2005 (UTC)

The only racially-charged bit of dialogue I recall from "Storm Front" was when a Nazi solider caught Archer walking with Alicia and told Archer that when she's sent back to Africa, he can go with her. I think that was the extent of it... just thought I'd throw that out there. (One other note, the same officer also told Alicia to "Shut up, b**ch!") --From Andoria with Love 07:03, 5 Sep 2005 (UTC)
I've seen BajoranBrouhaha's handiwork (I didn't realize it was his/her work I was cleaning up when I did a complete rewrite of genocide), and I think what you said above is probably true: If a vandal hadn't created the page (and apparently used it to keep the N-word in the recent changes list, although I'm not sure what the goal was), this wouldn't be an issue. But hopefully it can just die on its own - then hew-mon can be deleted and the others will just stay as they were before. Everyone's happy - at least until BajornaBrouhaha's ban expires. :P --Schrei 20:20, 5 Sep 2005 (UTC)
  • A little of topic, but I just want to say that I liked what you did with Genocide. I just made a few revsions and additions. Tobyk777 23:20, 5 Sep 2005 (UTC)
I hope you're right. But I don't think we need to worry about the vandal's return: just like the fleet of ships that greeted Enterprise in "Storm Front, Part II" and the ships that greeted the Borg (and later USS Voyager) in "Endgame", I'm sure there will be a fleet of admins waiting to greet BajoranBrouhaha when s/he returns 2morrow. ;) --From Andoria with Love 20:47, 5 Sep 2005 (UTC)
  • Can we remove the swastika if we're removing the N-word? I find the swastika even more offensive than the n-word. 1985 21:19, 10 Sep 2005 (UTC)
  • You mean the Nazi flag? The swastika was originally a Hindu symbol denoting something pleasant but the Nazis twisted the symbol into their own beliefs. The Nazi flag does not advocate anti-Semitism per se but rather Nazism/facism. The N-word has only one meaning so the two don't compare. I'm neither black nor Jewish but I think that the N-word really has no place here but the flag itself was a fairly important part of the ENT episodes. If there was anti-Semitic slang, I'd be amongst the first to protest against it just as I am in this case.--Scimitar 22:12, 10 Sep 2005 (UTC)
  • Yes, the image on Nazi is what i meant. But okay, yes, it had other meanings and technically it doesnt "stand" for anti-jewish sentiment... that doesnt mean it doesn't represent that sentiment. i actually don't think the swastika should be taken off, but there are a lot of pages on here with way less significance than the n-word and they have their own pages. The n-word is like google bombing - as much as you might not want it to be there, and as wrong as it may be... it's reality, and it's there (or should be). Trying to hide it in a "slang" page does absolutely nothing aside from maybe prevent people from getting it when they hit random page.1985 22:20, 10 Sep 2005 (UTC)

Why dont we just write an article on Negro (as that term was also used) and refer to the wikipedia article "nigger" with a note summarizing this discussion? --Alan del Beccio 00:33, 13 Sep 2005 (UTC)

What an enlightened philosophy, child. The Prophets surely smile on this Wiki tonight. -BajoranBumpkin 00:46, 13 Sep 2005 (UTC)
The Pah-wraiths also give their blessing to this suggestion. You may proceed. :P --From Andoria with Love 16:52, 13 Sep 2005 (UTC)
For the record, i uploaded the swastika, probably well over a year ago, and i haven't heard (of) any complaints since -- and I opened it in a discussion as to whether or not the swastike should actually be uploaded, before I did it.
There have been three Star Trek storylines that has the swastika plastered all over from top to bottom -- so apparently it isn't too offensive for the 9:00pm American timeslot in the 2000s or 1990s and even with that said, it wasn't too offensive for the 8:00pm timesot in the 1960s.
I find fascism and ethnic cleansing deplorable, so I hope i'm not being characterized by my work on related articles -- its just that Nazis make really effective villains (obviously a writer or two share my opinion -- theyve gone back to that particular well several times, putting aliens in Nazi uniforms and the like)
However, i definitely think that the rest of Memory Alpha should probably remain free of unnecessary uses of the swastika images and the n-word -- this includes user pages. -- Captain Mike K. Barteltalk 19:28, 13 Sep 2005 (UTC)
The "N" word, as you put it was used in the series and in the franchise and the speaking world. Pretending that it does not exist, or being offended by it does not change anything. It is sort of like the proverbial ostrich sticking its head under the sand. Unfortunately, with the (arguably) excessive political correctness in the world today, it is becoming easy to forget why some things were changed, because rather than learning lessons, we pretend that things never existed. This is just my take on it. The preceding unsigned comment was added by 12.97.130.66 (talk).
Good to know, although this has been settled since 2005. --31dot 23:15, February 26, 2011 (UTC)

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