Talk:Lore/archive

Didn't kill Soong

"The chip caused Lore to become even more unstable and he killed Soong." This is not correct. Soong was suffering from some unmentioned medical condition that was about to kill him. Lore hurt him, but he wasn't dead. His death isn't shown in that episode at all. He tells Data to leave, and he does. It's very unlikely that he'd leave if Soongs death was just moments away. 88.152.186.247 16:36, February 19, 2015 (UTC)

Fate?

After he was disassembled, where was he kept? Data should have kept him for spare parts. – The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.109.243.181.

The fate of Lore's disassembled parts is never discussed in canon, with the exception of the emotion chip. --OuroborosCobra 05:46, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

It would have been cool for Nemesis to have incorporated this, for instance they couldn't find all of the parts of B-4 so they used some Lore parts. --Bp 00:01, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Data should have strongly opposed such actions, as Lore should be recognized as a life form and Federation citizen via the events in "The Measure of a Man" (one cannot simply cut up one's brother for spare parts, regardless of the crime he committed). Also, Lore should also be entitled to a trial, and should not be disassembled by Federation law, as this would equate to execution, and the Federation forbids the death penalty. – The preceding unsigned comment was added by 4.224.105.51.

Hmm, some good points raised there. My only counter would be to the "death penalty" side. Technically speaking, it would be possible to reassemble Lore, therefore he is not entirely "dead". For all we know, he was reassembled, and stood trial, and part of his punishment was removal of his emotion chip. We never see this, of course. --OuroborosCobra ^talk 04:47, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

I was always thinking that Lore never was disassembled, just deactivated. --The Picard 20:20, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

And I just remembered that Data removed the chip at the end of "Descent, Part II". Well, the rest of my crappy theory could be true... --OuroborosCobra ^talk 05:49, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Unless I'm mistaken (and after several years since watching the episodes that is quite possible) the emotion chip was actually Data's to begin with and Lore effectively stole it by tricking Soong into installing it in the wrong android. Therefore Data taking the chip wasn't any sort of theft. - Avron 07:17, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

True, Soong intended the chip for Data, and Lore tricked him. --OuroborosCobra ^talk 07:24, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

I was thinking about all this last night and I think it's extremely unlikely that Lore's parts were destroyed as this would constitute an execution, and the death penalty does not exist in the Federation. 80.47.132.176 12:54, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

Are you sure about that? :P --From Andoria with Love 03:18, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

It's belived that lore's body was taken to the daystrum institute for study.

I'm not sure Lore actually is a Federation citizen. He does not belong to a federation species after all. It was determined in "The Measure of a Man" that Data was sentient and thus able to be a citizen, but he is a member of Starfleet, whereas Lore is not. DaveS86 12:27, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Apparently the phaser shot at Lore may have caused a chain reaction which renders his posatronic net useless since while Lore is hit in the chest its the emotion chip in his head that is damaged!

Presumedly Soong's pasatronic net design has flaws which render it prone to breakdown and failure-with the exception of Data. After all Lal pasatronic net collapsed under the strain and shock of experiencing emotions-so prehaps even if Data didn't hit Lore with phaser blast Lore would probably have gone from his insane behavior to collapse and breakdown as Lal did. Thus Lore being reassembled presents no danger of his future "reanimation"-without a one of the type genius such as Soong to design a pasatronic net-Lore is just simply moveable parts

P.s.should add Juliana Soong and B-4 are also Soong success besides DAta – The preceding unsigned comment was added by 134.53.145.201.

Emotion Chip

I nominate these sentences for removal from the tail-end of the article:

"However, the phaser blast that Data used to subdue Lore damaged the chip, rendering it useless to Data, though La Forge posited that he might one day be able to repair and install it. (TNG: "Descent, Part II") Somehow, in between the events of Lore's deactivation and the Amargosa observatory incident, the chip was repaired and Data was able to install it, although he initially had problems adapting to his new emotions. (Star Trek Generations)"

I think this information belongs under "emotion chip" or ""Descent, Part II"". The sentence in the article prior to this excerpt seems a much more appropriate closing to an article concerning Lore. Kylestrahm 06:19, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

I agree. – Hossrex 06:54, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

I made the change. Suck My Wake 20:09, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

Activation date?

This article gives Lore's activation date as September 9, 2335. However, I was wondering if there was actually any canon reference that places Lore's activation on that particular date. Does anybody know about this? Thanks! – Spot's Meow 23:28, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

Behind the scenes?

No "behinds the scenes" information for his character? I was expecting a goldmine here... RobertM525 04:05, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

reason for Lore unstaibilty?

The only difference between the two androids is that Lore has a Type L phase discriminator and Data has a Type R phase discriminator. Therefore presumedly Lore L type to be used for a prototype emotions chip and Data R type for the revised emotion ship. Possibly Lore posatronic net for emotion was flawed to begin with and the emotion Chip only accelerated this disorder. Likewise Data has what Lore lacks-an ethical program – The preceding unsigned comment was added by 134.53.145.201.

We don't know whether the "Type R/L phase discriminator" is a core component of their neural architecture or merely a sub-component. While it is speculation, it is conceivable that Data and Lore see the world fundamentally differently due to their possibly different core architectures (i.e. since the emotion chip seems to be an easily replaced sub-component, it could well work differently in each since the underlying architecture may be different). In support of this hypothesis is the question: if it were so easy to change the nature of the android by removing the emotion chip, why would Dr. Soong have felt it necessary to build an entirely new android which was "less perfect" (i.e. not human-like). It could also explain why they are named the way they are, with Data (referring to information) to seeing the world as a series of logical relationsips, while Lore (a name related to drama or emotional archetypes) might see the world primarily through emotional desires, ambitions, etc. (Lore does mention in the episode "Datalore" that he has ambition ("And let us toast, also, Dr. Soong,...who gave me the full richness of human needs and ambitions.") (Psydev 23:09, July 5, 2011 (UTC))

I'm not sure that it was ever stated that the phase discriminators were the only difference. I remember Data recognising that his head was not Lore's because of the phase discriminators, but that doesn't mean there aren't other differences (for example, if Lore had red hair then when asked if the head were Lore's, Data would have just pointed out the hair as a reason he knows it isn't and might not have mentioned the discriminators).

Still, the impression I had was that the major differences were with their programming itself. Lore was programmed with emotions, Data was not. The emotion chip was designed to give Data emotions, so there's no reason to think that Lore had one (or indeed is it likely, that if Soong already knew how to make one for Lore he would have had to work so hard and so long to make one for Data). That explains why Soong couldn't simply remove the chip from Lore, and why the Androids were different. Even with the chip, Data was still following his emotionless programming but simply with emotions on top. Lore had factors such as ambition built in. 58.110.182.64 14:44, August 24, 2011 (UTC)

Status

I believe Lore deserves to nominated for featured article. The piece in my opinion meets the needed criteria and Lore was a memorable character. – The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.84.9.29.

If you register a username, you can nominate it.--31dot 00:41, October 19, 2009 (UTC)

How could Lore stand the Pakleds?

Considering his generally negative and destructive attitude toward humans, it is interesting to think of what Lore might have upon being picked up by Pakleds...

70.51.228.50 00:28, October 30, 2009 (UTC)

Unfortunately, we do not put speculation in articles.--31dot 00:31, October 30, 2009 (UTC)

Commentary

An anon recently added this commentary to the article:

Why Data or the rest of the Enterprise D crew would simply leave him to drift rather than capturing him and arresting him is a question never addressed in the series.

However, it was never made clear whether or not Lore had actually been killed, nor was the fate of his android remains discussed. Several fan fiction stories and novels have suggested that it is likely Lore's remains would have been confiscated for study by scientists such as Bruce Maddox.

Neither fix in the POV and are commentary. -- sulfur 17:37, March 5, 2010 (UTC)