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Talk:Little Green Men (episode)

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Stardate Edit

This stardate is totally screwy - it places this episode some time near "The Search, Part II" (end of season 2!!!), at stardate 48217.7. In fact, some of the stardates go backwards and forwards, placing events at odd times. I was trying to put something about when Voyager left DS9, but I don't think I'll bother, the continuity is just too complex! zsingaya 10:27, 23 Aug 2005 (UTC)

There are a lot of occasions where the stardates are totally wrong. I don't think the writers were too concerned about them really. Like in "By Inferno's Light" where Sisko refers to the Battle of Sector 001 when, if you go by the stardate, hasn't happened as of the episode. Tough Little Ship 11:06, 23 Aug 2005 (UTC)
I have watched carefully the uncut DVD version of this episode, and I have noticed it doesn't contain any stardate (neither 48201.3 nor 48217.7 nor 49201.3). Therefore, the stardate should be mentioned as "unknown". Yrad 16:19, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
I'm not sure why it would have been in a cut version....--Alan 17:37, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
DVD cover and StarTrek.com list this episode's stardate as "Unknown", for what it's worth. Not that stardates really matter. CzechOut | 06:40, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

The real Roswell incident Edit

Seeing as how the real incident happened in July, 1947, and this episode is shown to take place in Roswell in July, 1947, should we make a note or something. It can't be a pure coincidence that Star Trek chose this year and place at random. The preceding unsigned comment was added by Nmajmani (talk • contribs).

I think that's kinda the joke... :) -- Sulfur 19:33, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
Yeah, um, that was the entire point of the whole episode. I'm really wondering at people's intelligence lately if they need things like that or another instance pointed out. Watch the episode people. Seriously. --OuroborosCobra talk 19:38, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
I am aware of the joke. But my friend, who is an alien fanatic, had to see the episode at least three times to make the connection. I was just wondering if it deserved a background note -Nmajmani 16:28, 23 August 2007 (UTC)Nmajmani

The Vulcans starting faster-than-light-flights Edit

Quark mentions that earth and ferenginar would have the warp-drive even before the Vulcans do. That would mean that Vulcans would just have the warp drive a hundred years when they made first contact with earth. Is there any source to confirm that vulcans were childs-in-space as well? After all, T'Pol was on earth only a decade later. I think that qualifies as contradictory. – Maweki 17:07, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

There are two possibilites. One, the Vulcans were indeed amateurs in Space-Flight when they landed on Earth. Two, which is more likely, is that Quark just mixed up his facts. He may have thought that they were years earlier than they actually were, because as far as the viewer knows, Quark never saw the exact date. And if he did see it later on, remember that he made that speech early on, while still in isolation--Nmajmani 17:40, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

I just rewatched "Carbon Creek" and Vulcans are (in 1957) conducting survey missions and are clearly capable of faster-than-light flight. I have a bad feeling about not having this confusion/continuity error added to the background information. I also don't think that Quark is that much confused as he must have gotten the century about right and I think that the Vulcans are long enough in space when they are conducting long-term survey missions. --Maweki 23:48, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

I agree with Nmajmani that Quark just mixed up his facts and with Cleanse that Quark is simply ignorant. However, I think Quark's mix-up and ignorance has a reason: As a Ferengi, he thinks profit is more important than history. For example, at one point in "Little Green Men", after reading something in his PADD, Nog makes a comment about humans going, "from being savages with a simple barter system to leaders of a vast interstellar federation in only five thousand years. It took us twice as long to establish the Ferengi Alliance..."; a comment that Quark dismisses, saying, "Five thousand, ten thousand, what's the difference? The speed of technological advancement isn't nearly as important as short-term quarterly gains." Furthermore, Denning confiscated all of the Ferengis' PADD's, including Nog's PADD on everything he would need to know to get by on Earth, so Quark cannot check his knowledge of history, not that he really cares. --Astrophysicophile 10:28, 2 September 2013 (UTC)
This is an old discussion, but I would like to point out that "faster-than-light propulsion technology" and "warp drive technology" are not synonymous concepts. There are dozens of various forms of ftl-transit in the star trek universe. See: propulsion article for an introduction to these. The behind the scenes intent at the time of Star Trek: First Contact according to Ronald Moore was that Vulcans were using something a bit different, more dangerous and inefficient technology for ftl, that they later on eventually abandoned and adopted the warp drive technology started by Cochrane. In any case this is one of those ambiguous things where we just don't know for certain what the truth is. --Pseudohuman (talk) 11:29, September 2, 2013 (UTC)
I agree with your point that FTL technology and warp drive technology are not synonymous, but remember that Quark was only speaking of selling the latter.
By the way, I cannot find a wikipage with Moore's explanation. Can you provide a link? Nevertheless, I think his explanation contradicts several lines of dialogue in ENT, lines that indicate that the Vulcans did use warp drive technology in the past scenes of Star Trek: First Contact. In the period before First Contact, in ENT: "Carbon Creek", Stron, a shipmate of T'Pol's foremother T'Mir, said, "I'm a warp field engineer." Why would he call himself this, if the Vulcans did not use warp drive at the time?
In the period after First Contact, whenever T'Pol mentioned the Vulcan protocol for first contact or the Vulcan stand on non-interference, the protocol or stand would hinge on warp drive technology, not all forms of FTL technology: In ENT: "Civilization", she said, "It's standard protocol to wait until a society develops warp drive before initiating first contact." And in ENT: "The Communicator", she said, "We can't risk contaminating a pre-warp culture." Why were first contact and non-interference hinged on warp drive technology and no other FTL technology? --Astrophysicophile 06:14, 3 September 2013 (UTC)
That is my point at the time of "Little Green Men" (1995) it hadn't been established yet when Vulcans, Klingons or Humans began using warp propulsion, and they gave a vague "centuries after 1947". In Star Trek: First Contact (1996) they established that the exact date for Humans was "2063" and hinted that Vulcans had some form of interstellar FTL at the time too. Later on in "Carbon Creek" (2002) they established Vulcans were using warp fields in "1957" only ten years after 1947. It's also a bit vague what the term warp drive refers to, since sometimes just using warp fields is considered a warp drive, but sometimes it's the whole idea that warp drive is a "matter-antimatter reactor energizing plasma for warp coils" that is considered to be a warp drive. So Quark could have been referring to that, since that was supposedly the new thing Cochrane invented in 2063. We know from various episodes that warp propulsion can be something called a graf unit, a subspace resonator, plasma drive, pulse fusion, or an artificial singularity powering the generation of warp fields, reference sources say even ion propulsion is a form of warp propulsion and we don't really know for certain warp coils as such are part of all of those drive systems. TNG: "A Matter of Time" suggested that the warp coil was a significant Human invention. It's all a bit vague and I agree that the whole "centuries after" is something that was retconned after 1995, but the idea that warp drive was invented by those races before 1947 has not been retconned yet in my opinion, at least in canon. --Pseudohuman (talk) 10:17, September 3, 2013 (UTC)

Production Number Edit

I've just noticed that the production number for this episode is 40510-479, whilst that for "Starship Down" is 40510-480. "Starship Down" aired the week before "Little Green Men", suggesting that they were flipped for airing, but according to the Star Trek: Deep Space Nine Companion, this episode is number 480 and "Starship Down" is 479, and they aired in the order they were shot. Anyone know anything more about this? – Bertaut talk 03:48, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

I was just wondering about this myself. Everything I've ever' seen about LGM and SD all say SD was produced first with a prod # of 479 while LGM was produced after with a prod # of 480. It even says this on http://www.startrek.com and on the menus for the North American DVDs. Is there some reason why MA apparently has it backwards—or are all the other sources out there backwards??? — deepspace93 10:03, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
I agree. Both the DVD sets and StarTrek.com list Starship Down as having been produced first. Memory Alpha must have got it wrong, which would mean the episodes aired in production order. The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.130.240.186 (talk).
The evidence seems conclusive but the change was never made. I just corrected the production #s here and on Starship Down. Apparently the original UK vhs release reversed the order of these 2 eps, which is probably where the confusion originated. I reworded the bit about the release under video. Someone in charge will have to change the '#th of 173 produced in DS9' bit. Derekbd 18:35, March 3, 2011 (UTC)

Question from user talk page Edit

Moved here for better visibility: (-FC 13:01, 14 April 2008 (UTC))

A visitor notified me that the US Army Air Corps (USAAC) was renamed to US Army Air Force (USAAF) in 1941, so the USAAF should have encountered the Ferengi in 1947 (only to be renamed to USAF later that year). Can you confirm that? Bernd 19:47, 13 April 2008 (EDT)

The dialogue doesn't actually say one way or the other, but the script consistently refers to the base as Army Air Corps, and the personnel (generals, nurses, etc.) as Army Air Corps. Chock it up to another difference between the universes. --OuroborosCobra talk 15:38, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

I wonder if there are any differences in the uniforms from 1941 to 1947. If the uniforms are "correct", i.e. those of the USAAF in 1947, then we may easily accept that it is indeed the USAAF. Need to check that later. Bernd 18:32, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

Removed nitpick Edit

Removed the following as a nitpick. Gold might be worthless as currency in the 24th Century, but not in the 20th(where Quark was).

  • Quark mentions that "gold is good" when discussing possible trades, though in (DS9: "Who Mourns for Morn?"), he remarks that all he received is "worthless gold."--31dot 16:56, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

Removed the following nitpick:

  • Error: The captain's bars on Capt. Wainwright's collar are rotated 90 degrees from where they should be throughout the episode.--31dot 19:55, May 7, 2012 (UTC)
I restored this. Pointing out errors in characters' rank insignia (cf. Nog, Chief O'Brien) are not considered nitpicks. The preceding unsigned comment was added by 74.96.103.202 (talk).

And I reverted it- pointing out costuming errors is exactly what a nitpick is; we don't do this anywhere on this site unless there is documentation about it, such as statements from Trek staff. Please review MA:NIT for more information. 31dot (talk) 15:39, July 22, 2012 (UTC)

Removed Edit

This episode firmly establishes, via the universal translator, that Quark, Rom, and Nog are never actually speaking English in the series.

I'm not sure how this is relevant to the episode- technically we don't know what language anyone was speaking because of the UT.--31dot 02:06, October 29, 2009 (UTC)

It happened in the episode, and was directly demonstrated what Quark, Rom, and Nog speak. We may not know for anyone else, but we do know for them, thanks to this episode. --OuroborosCobra talk 02:18, October 29, 2009 (UTC)

I still am not sure that is enough to make a blanket statement about the characters for the entire series, or that the episode page is the best location for this statement.--31dot 02:22, October 29, 2009 (UTC)

I removed the following addition to the above statement as speculative:

  • This would raise questions about Nog's difficulty pronouncing the human word "coup d'etat" in DS9: "The Circle"... perhaps a failure in the universal translator, or perhaps indicating a failed attempt by Nog to learn English while at Mrs. O'Brien's school. Given the ubiquity of Human, Cardassian, and Bajoran writing on Deep Space Nine, it is reasonable that the Ferengi would be literate in these languages even if they cannot understand the dialect of 1940s North America. --31dot 02:20, June 26, 2010 (UTC)

"Piano-playing Democrat" Edit

Is the additional comment concerning the popularity of the Democratic Party in the South worth including, assuming it's even correct? Even if the Democratic party remained "dominant" in the South (despite Truman's sub-50% approval ratings in 1946 and 1948), it doesn't necessarily follow that all Southern military generals would support him. I felt the "piano-playing" line just was meant to provide flavor, not to provoke a discussion of Truman's support among the military or in the South. 161.130.178.93 01:56, April 13, 2010 (UTC)

I agree. It's hardly impossible for at least one Southern general to dislike Truman/Democrats at the time. I removed the note. It's speculation, commentary, and nitpicking (comparison to real-world):
  • Given that Denning speaks with an accent from the southern United States, this clearly pejorative statement is quite out of place, as the Democratic Party practically held one-party rule (and at worst were the dominant party) throughout the region in 1947.
Cleanse ( talk | contribs ) 02:14, April 13, 2010 (UTC)

Normally, I'd agree wholeheartedly, but at that time, the Democrats' grip on pretty much any southern state was almost as complete as Communists' grip on the USSR - enough to make it (and I hate the line more than probably any other ever used in Trek, which I regard as an insult to the US military, since it plays right into the Gingrich-Limbaugh delusion that anyone patriotic enough to serve in the Armed Forces hated Clinton just as much as they did) a downright egregious misrepresentation of history. Denning may very well have disliked Truman, and he wouldn't be the only general who felt that way (if he'd followed up "piano-playing" with something else, it would've been fine), but in 1947 for someone like Denning it would've been inconceivable that he would ever regard himself as anything but a Democrat, and there's no way in Hell he would've used the term in such an insulting manner.--Ten-pint 00:00, May 12, 2010 (UTC)

Netter note? Edit

My wife, a doctor, noticed that the anatomical drawings used as set decorations in the room where Quark, Rom and Nog are prints by Frank Netter — his style is quite distinctive. I'd initially thought this might be an anachronism, but it seems that Netter's anatomical paintings were distributed starting in 1938, so it's quite plausible that they'd be seen in an Army medical facility in 1947. Is this something that would be of sufficient interest to mention in the background notes, or is it too trivial? —Josiah Rowe 11:59, August 6, 2010 (UTC)

Citation needed Edit

The following two notes need citations:

  • Quark plans to give the Ferengi warp technology "even before the Vulcans", though several episodes suggest Vulcans would have already had warp technology in 1947. Most likely this is simply ignorance on Quark's part.
  • There were difficulties getting Odo's morphing effects to line up with the dog in several places. In the end, the effects were accelerated to compensate, which is why Odo appears to morph more quickly and his liquid form scintillates more rapidly than seen on him or any other changeling in any other appearance. After this episode, the producers actively attempted to avoid using difficult to control animals; birds were a particular favorite.

Cleanse ( talk | contribs ) 08:37, June 23, 2011 (UTC)

No nuke tests in 1947 Edit

Not sure if this is worth mentioning or where to do so, but as a minor continuity error, there were no nuclear detonations in 1947. After the Trinity test and Hiroshima/Nagasaki in 1945, the next human nuclear explosions were the Crossroads tests in 1946 and the Sandstone tests in 1948, both in the Pacific Ocean. 204.11.73.2 20:13, January 30, 2014 (UTC)

That's a nitpick. There apparently was a nuclear detonation in 1947 in the Star Trek universe. 31dot (talk) 20:22, January 30, 2014 (UTC)
I added a small note on the atomic weapon page. I think its worth noting when, the startrek timeline is slightly different from our own, as long as it's not in a nitpicky way.--Pseudohuman (talk) 20:36, January 30, 2014 (UTC)
I agree. I think it is worth stating as a point of note, if not written like a nitpick. --| TrekFan Open a channel 21:24, January 30, 2014 (UTC)

Of course there might have been a test that went wrong, due to Rom's harvesting of the energy, it was then classified as top secret and hasn't yet been de classifiedLt.Lovett (talk) 09:39, June 16, 2014 (UTC)

Speculation? Edit

The entry states "This episode firmly establishes, via the universal translator, that Quark, Rom, and Nog are never actually speaking English in the series." Is this the case? Could it be that English has evolved by 2372 so that none of them can understand it as English. The same as we would struggle with spoken English of the 1570's. Later O'Brian and Jake struggle with Vic's slang. Certainly Nog later is speaking English as here he speculates a dampening field could be the cause of the malfunction of the translator later he is able to communicate with other officers after the Dominion establish a dampening field. Lt.Lovett (talk) 09:59, June 16, 2014 (UTC)

Script makes it clear that the language they are speaking is Ferengi when ever we as the audience are seeing them from the human perspective in the episode during the malfunction. [1] --Pseudohuman (talk) 15:54, June 16, 2014 (UTC)

I know they speak Ferengi amongst themselves but I'd assume that they could understand the rest of the crew, It was more the statement that they never speak English Lt.Lovett (talk) 16:05, June 16, 2014 (UTC)

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