Talk:Leonard McCoy/archive

Moved from Nominations for featured articles

• Leonard McCoy -- This article seems to have been extensively added to over the last few days by an unregistered contributor. I and some others have done a bit of cleanup and some wiki work. The big question: is it ready for the featured article status? I happen to say yes - anything that can be added would be largely a bonus at this stage, I think -- Dmsdbo 01:34, 3 May 2005 (UTC)
  • Reservations - I think this article is already pretty good, but it looks like (from the editing page) that certain sections were ear-marked for expansion, but were never completed. These include more references to TOS: "The Man Trap", TAS: "The Ambergris Element", "Once Upon a Planet", and Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country. The pictures were not arranged near to the specific parts of the text, but I've corrrected this. zsingaya 16:32, 4 May 2005 (UTC)
  • Second - Dmsdbo, thank you for the nomination! I appreciate your taking notice of the additions I made over the past few days. I noted your request for bonus additions, and expanded on the "later career" section, as well. I hope this helps. I am not savvy with pictures, however, and would appreciate some help--can anyone add a picture or two of McCoy at work? Operating or healing someone? Having a drink with the captain? Is there a picture depository we can draw from? Thank you! -- CMO 16:52, 4 May 2005 (EST)
  • Opposed- I would like to think I got the ball rolling on this article, and it still hasn't fulfilled the expectations I had for it when I introduced the <!--NOTES--> within the article for what would be nice to have added to it. IMHO, it still needs additions from "The Ambergris Element", "Once Upon a Planet", and more on Star Trek VI. --Gvsualan 14:01, 5 May 2005 (UTC)
    • I think that is an unfair assessment of the article. What has already been included puts some other main cast featured articles, such as Miles O'Brien, in a lower tier. There has to be a difference between necessary additions and improvements. -- Dmsdbo 14:04, 5 May 2005 (UTC)
    • I meant no disrespect to previous contributors, and give them full marks for what they have done before me. We're all working together on this project, and I think we all feel elated when someone takes notice of our work. As for the TAS episodes, I myself have not seen these two and did not wish to contribute something I knew nothing about. Let me put out the call: has anyone seen these episodes enough to make a quick contribution to them? -- CMO 10:20, 5 May 2005 (EST)
  • Fine, in the interest everyone making a big deal out of this and since this is a community effort...I'll add the TAS stuff later and give it my approval now. I'm not trying to be an ass, and yes, we do have lesser articles with featured status. However, those articles were given approval a long time ago and we, as writers, have been able to greatly improve our skills since then and therefore should be expected to have higher overall standards. We shouldnt have the frame of "well this is better than that one?", we should be asking "is it as good as this one?". --Gvsualan 15:00, 6 May 2005 (UTC)
    • Well, I've seen those episodes. No problem, I've added the information to the article. Gvsualan, despite your retraction, you're displaying a very bad attitude about this, talking about "getting the ball rolling" and "YOUR expectations" for the article. I think that Dmsdbo and CMO have done some fine work on the article for McCoy! I don't understand why you didn't add the TAS information yourself, but that's no reason to hold it up in the first place. You were right about one thing, this is a free public site where ANYONE can make changes! Please take YOUR expectations to your own site and let us get back to enjoying this site we create together! --User: 24.47.59.222 , 21:32, 6 May 2005 (UTC)
      • I did no work on the McCoy article -- most was done by CMO and Gvsualan. Unregistered users should not be posting here, and I only left the comment because you contributed information to the article that was desired. If you wish you wish to participate further please register. If this is a registered user, you should remember to sign in! -- Dmsdbo 21:45, 6 May 2005 (UTC)
    • Some people are taking these objections to heart! There is plenty of information already for the article to be made Featured, IMHO. When it is featured, there's nothing to stop someone adding more stuff later on. zsingaya 08:40, 7 May 2005 (UTC)
    • I agree with zsingaya. Let's all play nice together, now.  :) -- CMO 13:14, 7 May 2005 (EST)
    • Now the new additions have been made, I'm giving my Support for this article - there's so much information about McCoy on this page! zsingaya 16:11, 17 May 2005 (UTC)

Original votes for Leonard McCoy archived (25-02-2005)

• Leonard McCoy -- Very well written with many source references with no glaring or obvious omissions; good use of image inclusion. Appreciative apocrypha inclusion with appropriate formatting. | THOR 19:21, 8 Feb 2005 (CET)

Unfortunately I disagree at the moment. For one I believe an article needs to be 95-100% complete before it is nominated and, for certain, featured. This, in my opinion is maybe only at 80%. I have contributed an immense amount of material to the article and it is still not completed to what I think is required for McCoy. I've "hidden" (ie. <!--- --->) a number of things in the edit portion of the article that I still wish to see in the article, just haven't had the time or DVD sources to add it. But, in short, there is virtually ZERO movie data in the article, just generic summaries, definately not enough to call it "complete". --Gvsualan 19:50, 8 Feb 2005 (CET)

Very well written, but agree with Gvsualan. Needs to be all-complete before being featured... Ottens 23:42, 12 Feb 2005 (GMT)

McCoy's Year of Birth

I wonder if I'm the only fan who cares about this, but of the many continuity issues that revolve around dates in the Trek universe, few bother me more than the age of Dr. McCoy. He is listed according to virtually all the sources I've seen as being born in 2227. This has more to do with a largely throwaway line in the TNG pilot "Encounter at Farpoint" than any closeness to De Kelley's actual age or McCoy's suggested age for much of the series. Data said McCoy was 137 "according to Starfleet records;" though, if memory serves, Data was elso mentioned as a member of Starfleet Academy's "class of '78." It would be far more logical, given what we know of McCoy's background, both implied by a number of credible sources and stated by authorities such as Stephen Whitfield in his "The Making of Star Trek," that McCoy is 11 years older than Kirk. De Kelley, incidently, was 11 years older than William Shatner. Fred Freiberger, 3rd-season Trek producer, apparently refused to accept such a great gap in age for the characters, even though the gap was the same for the actors (which is why a script by D.C. Fontana about a grown daughter of Dr. McCoy called "Joanna" became the excreble "Way to Eden.) That 2227 is accepted because 137 was mentioned during the pilot episode of a series that had not yet established when it would take place (2364 was decided upon only at the end of the season) is to me particularly annoying. And I must admit this is one of those examples of personal fanon in which fans ignore what is "canon" in favor of what they believe makes more sense. No matter how many "official" publications say 2227, I will believe 2222. And don't get me started on that Kirk as Ensign on the Republic while still at the Academy nonsense.

Please note that discussion pages are for discussing the articles, not chat rooms or message boards. Also, please sign your posts by leaving four ~ marks. Jaz ^{talk | novels} 05:41, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

Protected

Temporarily protected due to frequent vandalism. --From Andoria with Love 06:45, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

• Unprotected. --From Andoria with Love 01:14, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

McCoy's full name

If McCoy's middle initial ("H") isn't canon, should he really be referenced that way in the body of the article and the sidebar? It appears that the article title was once "Leonard H. McCoy", but at some point it was moved to simply "Leonard McCoy", presumably for the same reason. -- Renegade54 15:32, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Um, the H is canon, it was spoken in Star Trek III: The Search for Spock - McCoy announces himself to T'Lar as "McCoy, Leonard H. Son of David." -- Michael Warren | Talk 20:00, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Indeed. I'd have answered the request on my userpage myself, but you were quicker. --Jörg 20:02, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks Dark, I'll fix it. The article should be at Leonard H. McCoy as well, like James T. Kirk. -- Renegade54 21:34, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

It was at "Leonard H. McCoy" originally, but was moved to just "Leonard McCoy" since he was only referred to as "Leonard H. McCoy" once but "Leonard McCoy" many times. Or something like that... --From Andoria with Love 01:18, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, I knew it was at "Leonard H. McCoy" at one time and had been moved... but I was trying to make things match, i.e. if we're calling him "Leonard H. McCoy" in the body of the article as a canon name, then that's what the title should be, or vice versa. Or am I being unreasonably anal? -- Renegade54 01:36, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

No, not unreasonably. Anyways, middle names are tricky. I always took "James T. Kirk" to be the exception to the rule, as most recognize that as the "proper page name." More people know "James T. Kirk" than "Leonard H. McCoy," probably. The title of the article body, should be the character's full known name (as given in the show), and not necessarily the page name (which should be recognizable "professional" name). Hence why:

• Thomas Eugene Paris is located at Tom Paris
• Harry S. L. Kim is located at Harry Kim
• James Tiberius Kirk is located at James T. Kirk
• Beverly Cheryl Crusher, MD, (née Howard) is located at Beverly Crusher
• Worf, son of Mogh, of the Klingon House of Martok, of the Human family Rozhenko; mate to K'Ehleyr, father to Alexander Rozhenko, and husband to Jadzia Dax; Starfleet officer and soldier of the Empire; bane of the House of Duras and slayer of Gowron; Federation ambassador to Qo'noS is located at Worf (joke based on intro to Worf, son of Mogh) (please ignore that--Tim Thomason 04:30, 23 January 2007 (UTC))

and so on.--Tim Thomason 01:48, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Heh... I vote that we move Worf to that last one!! Ok, I'll move McCoy back to no "H" and accept Kirk as an exception. Boyohboyohboyohboy... :) -- Renegade54 01:52, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

I'm for the full name. Leonard H. McCoy, M.D. it should be, as I'm anal. And a bit of a completist. By the way, the "Worf" joke cracked me up. - Adambomb1701 16:07, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

What does the "H" stand for anyway? Does anybody know? --205.188.116.70 05:59, November 3, 2009 (UTC)

I'm all for the completion of things to, but I think Leonard McCoy is fine, because I've rarely heard of him or even search for him as "Leonard H. McCoy" or to be honest, even as "Leonard McCoy". As for the M.D., I feel that titles for the most part should not be in a character page's title. If that made sense... – The preceding unsigned comment was added by Terran Officer (talk • contribs).

Education

I don't think we know for certain where McCoy went to college or med school. I say this because there is contradictory evidence between TAS and DS9. TAS indicates that he went to the Starfleet Medical Academy, and this would be supported by the fact that he was a commissioned officer in Starfleet. However, DS9 clearly states that he attended the University of Mississippi in some capacity as a student (as an aside/fannon speculation, I wouldn't be surprised if he did his undergraduate work there and then Starfleet Medical Academy accepted students from non-academy and non-starfleet backgrounds and upon graduation they agreed to be in Starfleet for some time). I point this out because while TAS is an acceptable source for Memory Alpha it is not canon, and I'm wondering what we do when its information conflicts with official canon.198.82.82.119 02:22, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

"We used to pull stunts like this in medical school with trick glasses." He never specifically stated that that he attended Starfleet Medical Academy, so there isn't a contradiction here, and "canon" remains intact. --Alan del Beccio 03:30, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

In TOS: "The Ultimate Computer", this line by Spock seems to indicate that McCoy didn't attend Starfleet Academy:

"A dunsel, doctor, is a midshipman's term used at Starfleet Academy; it refers to a part that serves no useful purpose." Otherwise, McCoy would know that midshipmen were at the Academy. – StarFire209 00:01, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

I would agree that we can't know for certain McCoy's complete academic history it dose seems apparent that he did spend time at both Ole Miss and Starfleet Medical. From my own military experience (limited as it is) When an individual completes some sort of graduate program such as medical school or law school and decides to accept a commission they attend what is known as an Officer Basic Course OBC. Now I understand this is obviously non-cannon information a.k.a. "an aside/fannon speculation" but since there is obviously interest on the topic I just wanted submit for what it's worth (if anything) that Starfleet Medical may be some equivalent of an OBC and McCoy may have gone to Medical School at Ole Miss prior to anytime spent at Starfleet Medical. Captain Chris 07:47, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Or maybe ALL universities/colleges/higher learning centers in the 23rd and 24th century are part of Starfleet Academy, as for the "A dunsel, doctor, is a midshipman's term used at Starfleet Academy; it refers to a part that serves no useful purpose." it's not that he never heard of Midshipman's it that he never heard of Dunsel, thanks to the new universe created by JJ Abrams however we now know that McCoy completed medical school and was a certified doctor sometime prior to 2255, He was married, but he had endured a harsh divorce. So with nowhere else to go, he decided to enlist in Starfleet in 2255, per the McCoy (alternate reality) page:

This event predates the point of divergence to the alternate reality, and so does not differ from the prime universe. According to his dossier on the official site, McCoy still attended Earth's University of Mississippi.

Chasemarc (talk) 21:57, January 3, 2013 (UTC)

Death

Since the actor playing this character is no longer living, how does McCoy perish ? 65.163.113.170 01:55, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

It has never been established in canon and several novels have him living into the Dominion War. So, while the actor is dead that character as far as we know is not. -FleetCaptain 06:20, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Since Dr. McCoy suffered from carrying Spock's Katra, and McCoy was alive and well into the 2360s, it can be assumed that his extreme age is a result of that and he may not live past 2422 since even Vulcans generally do not live past 200 years. 205.188.117.10

Or it could be because Humans live longer in the 23rd/24th centuries, which is alluded to much more than possession of katra's extending lifespans. 31dot 23:29, May 31, 2012 (UTC)

He's dead Jim

I was wondering if someone could help me remember something. When i was a kid, i remember seeing a TOS episode where McCoy says "he dead jim" and Kirk responds with something along the lines of "you always say that" Were these lines actually spoken, or was i just dreaming? thanks. – The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.63.174.199.

never said, not to mention, it would have been incredibly insensitive for him to say considering how often he always seemed concerned about the 430 crewmembers aboard his ship. --Alan 02:00, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

At the risk of stirring something up, that hazy memory could be a dim recollection of the banter between and McCoy featured in "The Corbomite Maneuver"; Kirk would swear that he heard McCoy say something (e.g., "A little suffering is good for the soul"), and McCoy would deny it — but without much force. – GNDN 02:04, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

I'm [also] looking for a comprehensive list of all the variants to "he's dead, Jim" that Deforest Kelley used on the show ("Jim! He's Expired!" "Jim! He's no longer alive!"). Where can I find one?

I hope this is the right place to ask about it. -Akktri

Uniform in Friday's Child

I don't think McCoy's uniform during the footage of his Capella IV visit in Friday's Child is necessarily a continuity error. On the Friday's Child page, it says, "In the footage seen in the briefing room of Dr. McCoy's previous visit to Capella IV, he is seen wearing his present day Enterprise tunic, rather than a TOS: "Where No Man Has Gone Before" era tunic, which would have been appropriate for that time period. He is also seen wearing the Enterprise insignia before he joined the crew." First of all, we don't know when this footage was from. It could have been in 2265 or early 2266, merely months before his joining the Enterprise crew, placing it between "Where No Man Has Gone Before" and "Mudd's Women," or "The Corbomite Maneuver" I think. Second, it is also entirely possible that he had this assignment (which was clearly relatively brief) after he had been assigned to join the Enterprise crew as Chief Medical Officer. Since, presumably, he was just being escorted to the planet by whatever ship was going there, it logically follows that he would be given the insignia of the Enterprise, since that was the ship he was hypothetically on his way to join. Not saying this is the absolute explanation, just that it's perfectly reasonable and the uniform inconsistency is totally explainable. In fact, if we take it as canon, I think it's reasonable to say that whenever McCoy served on Capella IV is a reasonable time to establish the introduction of this uniform. -unsigned by User:Chris Propst

That is one way around it, but this listed in several Trek books as a straight up costume mistake. Also, if one listens very carefully to the dialouge, it can be viewed as saying McCoy was on the planet for several *months* and this occurred before he joined the Enterprise crew. I would say that, while your way of epxlaining it is a good one, this should be left alone since there are far more sources that say it was a costume error. Maybe an added sentence like "although there are several other explanations of this" or something like that. -FC 18:27, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

McCoy's Friendship with Kirk

There is an inconsistency between information on McCoy's page versus that shown on Kirk's page regarding when they first met. Here it says that they knew each other quite well prior to McCoy's assignment to Enterprise, on Kirk's page their friendship is described as only just starting on McCoy's assignment and developing rapidly from there. Neither seems to be directly quoting any episodes as evidence. There is a passing reference by McCoy in The Corbomite Maneuver that Bailey should remind Kirk of someone (himself) from eleven years ago - it's implied that McCoy knew Kirk then but it's not absolute. Is that sufficient to use as evidence of pre-existing friendship? --58.178.22.204 17:08, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

Knowing someone well and friendship are two different things. — Morder (talk) 03:34, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

Quoting the two relevant pages : from Kirk's page we have '...Leonard McCoy became chief medical officer of the Enterprise ... in 2265. Kirk formed an easy rapport with his new Doctor, giving him the moniker "Bones"... . ...their friendship grew rapidly.' This indicates to me that their friendship did not start until after McCoy was on Enterprise. From McCoy's page we have 'McCoy's friendship with Kirk dated back well before Kirk took command of the Enterprise,...', to me, quite a different story. If others don't see this as contradictory, fair enough, I'll drop it. --Sahviere 03:45, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

Well, I just saw your post and didn't research it and you said "knew each other quite well" :) They could probably use a rewrite. — Morder (talk) 04:10, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

Retired or still working?

So McCoy was in the Pilot episode of Next Generation. Do you think he was still working in 2364? Or was he Admiral-Retired? Just asked to inspect the Enterprise because he was one of the few former Enterprise crew (besides Spock) that was still alive? In the time line eventually set up Kirk was killed on the Enterprise B, and Scotty was missing and inside a transporter. Would that leave McCoy the next in line to perform an inspection tour?--A Pickering 10:24, January 11, 2010 (UTC)

I would say retired, since his "uniform" is never seen again. In canon I don't think there was ever an answer, but in a novel (can't remember which one) he was there as a birthday present. - Archduk3 10:21, January 11, 2010 (UTC)

Man reaches 134 I wouldn't expect him to wear a uniform.--A Pickering 10:24, January 11, 2010 (UTC)

Racist?

• Leonard McCoy has been seen to be racist towards Vulcans often referring to them as "hobgoblins" and derogitively describing them as "green-blooded" which is comparable to calling an asian "yellow". McCoy also dislikes androids.

I removed the above comment. I don't agree with the characterization "racist". Even assuming he meant hobgoblin as racist, he didn't refer to all Vulcans that way, just one that I know of. I also don't recall seeing where he expressed a dislike of androids, other than to compare one to a Vulcan in a sarcastic manner.--31dot 11:30, November 17, 2011 (UTC)

Pretty much the entire bridge crew in TOS could be considered "racist" towards Mr. Spock – as evidenced by the several "let's all laugh at Spock" endings. I thus think putting it in the lead paragraph is a bit misleading. Here, its probably better to incorporate the things McCoy called Spock into an expanded "Friendships" section – the section should have sub-headings for Kirk, Spock etc.–Cleanse ^{( talk | contribs )} 11:41, November 17, 2011 (UTC)

Thank You

To whomever fixed the page while I was trying to, thank you. I was trying my best, but was getting rather frustrated with trying to fix the vandalism. CanuckTrekkie 00:43, June 12, 2012 (UTC)

Inconsistent rank during TAS

It occurs to me that it is quite possible that McCoy's original promotion to commander might have just been a brevet promotion. If so, it is quite conceivable that he would have held on to and, clean laundry permitting, continued to wear uniforms displaying his permanent rank of lieutenant commander.

Such brevet promotions of medical officers (actually, especially medical officers) are relatively common in modern militaries. The circumstances surrounding such promotions make the conjecture that McCoy was initially promoted to Commander as a brevet rank at least somewhat plausible.

Admittedly, it is an assumption. But it is an assumption that allows us to treat both McCoy's rank and uniform in TAS as canonical.--68.61.5.58 02:56, February 10, 2014 (UTC)

Article content can only come from these sources, not our personal assumptions or speculations as that would be original research. It isn't our purpose to invent explanations for inconsistencies. 31dot (talk) 03:42, February 10, 2014 (UTC)