List of KlingonsEdit
I disagree because it's unnecessary - the article states that all Klingons were affected by the virus.--Scimitar 22:58, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Read the second from last paragraph before the italics. It states that all Klingons original genetic code was restored, including Klingons from TNG, DS9 and VOY. Three legendary Klingons from TOS, Kor, Koloth and Kang were affected by the virus but they were cured and later seen, with cranial ridges, in the DS9 episode "Blood Oath". Kor was again seen in "The Sword of Kahless" and "Once More Unto the Breach".
- Yes, they were all restored. I would like to see a list of those we have seen to be affected by this virus. That includes Kor, Koloth and Kang and all other TOS Klingons. It would also include some ENT Klingons. It does not include characters such as Worf or Gowron. Tyrant 23:22, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)Tyrant
- Any Klingon born prior to 2270-72 would have been affected by the virus. The first restored Klingons were seen in Star Trek: The Motion Picture and although there is much debate about the exact year in which the movie is set, it is agreed that it is set at some time in the early 2270s.
- These Klingons from TOS and TAS should be noted:
- These Klingons from the Star Trek movies should be noted too. Some of them e.g. Chang and Azetbur probably didn't have a complete restoration as their cranial ridges aren't quite as prominent as those of most Klingons.
- Hope this helps--Scimitar 00:51, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC).
I think the fact that it simply state those born between the point of its creation and, say, Star Trek: The Motion Picture is enough. Nevertheless, I agree, it is unnecessary. --Gvsualan 03:12, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)
- I just thought it would be useful. I wouldn't know every Klingon's date of birth by their name and I like to think I have a half decent knowledge of trek. Seemed like having the names listed would aid this site, as it is designed to be a reference guide as opposed to a flexing competition between trekies. Tyrant 03:34, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)Tyrant
Retroviruses info Edit
I'm going to restore the information about retroviruses that was deleted. With all due respect to 18.104.22.168, I think it IS Trek info. That is, it's a good reference to how in scientific terms the virus was able to change DNA. -- Krevaner 08:51, 11 Sep 2005 (UTC)
- I disagree with your revert. I think this non-canon info should be removed and replaced with a wikipedia link. Jaf 12:58, 11 Sep 2005 (UTC)Jaf
- Agreed; info has been removed and a link to retroviruses at Wikipedia has been added in its place. --From Andoria with Love 13:06, 11 Sep 2005 (UTC)
In my opinion, this is one of the greatest retcons of the Star Trek:Enterprise series. It resolves so many questions about the differences between the TOS Klingons and other Klingons, such as:
- Their general appearance
- Why the TOS Klingons were much sneakier than their counterparts (did the TOS Kligons' hearts know fear?)
- Often defeated in hand-to-hand contact with Terrans
- Increased military caste enrollment (to compensate for the fear in their hearts)
- Why there were no Klingon augments in the other series (the Klingons never shy away from any technology that would give them a military advantage)
Evolutionarily speaking, I can see how Klingons with more prominent ridges had more breeding opportunities than their smoother counterparts. Even then, it would take hundreds of years to "breed out" this defect. I can also understand how their research dollars would pour into medical technology advances to rid themselves of this fallout, so much so that they would not have the time and/or resources to conquer their annoying neighbors from Earth.
--22.214.171.124 22:07, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
- Opinion noted. Please only use talk pages to discuss the content of the article, not the plot of the episodes. Thank you. --From Andoria with Love 02:30, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
I remember reading in a book/magazine years ago that Gene Roddenberry was quoted on the ridge controversy as (I'm assuming jokingly) saying "They (TOS Klingons) were northern Klingons." Does anyone have any more information on this reference? ````Sluggo72
- Giving Kang, Kor and Koloth ridges in DS9 was an unforgivable mistake. TPTB should have went with John Ford's Klingon-Human fusion solution. 'Tis the best, hands down. Since TPTB didn't, we had this odd explanation from Enterprise.
- And this has what to do with the quality or content of the article, which is a requirement for comments on any talk page? (That's a rhetorical question; the only possible answer is "nothing," meaning it shouldn't be here. Please keep that in mind when commenting on talk pages. Thanks!) --From Andoria with Love 02:51, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
How long before they fixed it?Edit
- It won't because the IKS T'Ong (as well as Kohlar's battle cruiser) left long after the events of TMP, the first before or after the fact appearance of the new forheads since ENT. --Alan del Beccio 01:33, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
- In that case, can't we use TMP to help pinpoint with? In 2269 we have "The Time Trap", where Klingons still lack ridges. In 2272 (or 2273), we have TMP, where they have ridges again. That means they returned sometime between 2269 and 2273. I think that may be worth mentioning in the article. --OuroborosCobra 01:48, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
Background Notes from Episode WriterEdit
As the co-writer of "Affliction", I went ahead and expanded on the "background notes" section. I deleted the following, which to me seemed more opinion than fact:
- The augment virus theory has been highly controversial. Many writers (most notably those of the original episode in which the make-up differences were recognized) felt that there could be no logical explanation for the differences and were content to let fans interpret for themselves or leave it as a dramatic convention, as has always been the case with the Trill species. Scientifically speaking, the theory is highly implausible; however, as this is now canon, the point is moot.
Hope my contribution sheds some light on what was -- for me -- two fun episodes to conceive and write. Mike Sussman - VOY/ENT Writer-Producer 08:12, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
- Yeah, I think that last sentence pretty much explains why that whole part can go "however, this point is moot." - AJ Halliwell 10:36, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
Forum:Kirk's Klingons vs Picard's KlingonsEdit
This question I'm sure has been asked but this I need to know.......What's with the Klingons the flat foreheaded ones from Kirk's time and the ridgeheaded ones from Picard's time. On DS9 when Worf was asked he said "Don't ask" can anyone tell me why there was 2 different kinds of Klingons? My'chol, House of K'Tylo
- There aren't two kinds, there is one kind that was effected by Klingon's failed attempts at creating Augments. Watch "Affliction" and "Divergence" for the episodes on the subject, or read our article at Klingon augment virus. --OuroborosCobra talk 08:46, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
- My'Choad, for the writers talking about why there are two kinds of Klingons (neverninding the Augment Virus, because that story wasn't written until later), you can see DVD commentaries on DS9 Season 5 Disc 7, and also a supposed Gene Roddenberry attribution on http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/inconsistencies/klingon-foreheads.htm 126.96.36.199 01:45, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
Into Darkness KlingonsEdit
So I wouldn't say they aren't afflicted by the Augment virus in "Into Darkness", it's quite possible the different-looking Klingon we saw is the alternate reality version of how they "cured" it, kinda, almost, really close but still looking not like a Klingon totally, due to the Augment virus. That's my guess! – The preceding unsigned comment was added by 188.8.131.52 (talk).
The background notes partly penned by the author seem to go way beyond the remit and neutral standpoint of Memory Alpha and turn into a kind of defence/apology of the storyline, as well as a kind of validation of the idea that Gene Rodenberry's opinion carries more weight than what's seen on screen, which I believe is against MA policy. The last paragraph in particular needs to be deleted or rewritten in my opinion:
- The Enterprise writers' explanation for the change in the Klingons did not – and could not – satisfy every Star Trek fan. Gene Roddenberry himself reportedly believed any "explanation" was unnecessary; the makeup seen in the films and the later series would have been too expensive during the 1960s. Roddenberry felt it was best to simply imagine that Klingons always had ridges (although this preference was perhaps tossed out the window when the change was noted by the DS9 crew in "Trials and Tribble-ations"). Still, the Enterprise writers felt that the "dramatic convention" explanation was and is still valid, if a viewer prefers it. If one accepts Roddenberry's suggestion that TOS-era Klingons always had ridges – and that the DS9 reference was merely a joke by the episode writers – then perhaps the augment virus had no lasting effect on the Empire: the disease may have been cured relatively quickly following the events seen in the Enterprise two-parter. After all, there was no reference to it in the "later" series (which of course were produced years before Star Trek: Enterprise).