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Talk:Julian Bashir

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Revision as of 19:18, November 3, 2012 by 86.84.66.210 (Talk)

Great-grandmother

Is there a reason for the '???' next to 'Great-Grandmother'? -- Mjwilco 23:45, 16 Aug 2004 (CEST)

We don't know her first name. "Trials and Tribble-ations" just gives us her surname. -- Michael Warren | Talk 23:53, Aug 16, 2004 (CEST)
Then it seems more professional to note this textually rather than have the question marks. -- Mjwilco 02:02, 17 Aug 2004 (CEST)

{{pna-incomplete}}

I've added the {{pna-incomplete}} for obvious reasons: there's absolutely nothing listed here about any of his tenure on Deep Space 9. It just stops at his med school graduation. | THOR 19:15, 9 Feb 2005 (CET)


Parents

Also where's the info on his parents?? They showed up in "Dr. Bashir, I Presume"

Bashir on Enterprise

Wasn't their an episode where Bashir appeared in TNG?

Bashir appeared in TNG: "Birthright, Part I"-Rebelstrike2005 20:19, 17 Feb 2005 (GMT)

Dax and Section 31

There is nothing here about his relationships/how he liked either Jadzia or Ezri Dax. Also there is no mention of Section 31.

First posting?

Was DS9 his first posting from the Medical Academy?

Yes, this was mentioned several times, most notably in "Emissary" and "Explorers". --Gvsualan 03:02, 1 Mar 2005 (GMT)

If DS9 was his first post how did he get to be Lieutennant? I was under the impression that the rank of ensign is bestowed on academy graduates. Wheatleya 23:44, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Regular Starfleet Academy graduate Ensigns are not Doctorate-level educated. Let's presume that JB satisfied Ensign requirements earlier, and continued to accumulate experience and promotions while pursuing the Medical Doctor portion of his education at Starfleet Medical. Seems plausible. SwishyGarak 00:09, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
Logical. This would also be in keeping with Medical Doctors who are commisioned in the modern military. (Vince 22:10, 6 March 2008 (UTC))

Latest revision

That last edit looks pretty good, but it needs to be checked for spelling/grammar errors (this is pretty much a reminder to myself should no one else decide to take on the task soon). --From Andoria with Love 02:58, 30 Dec 2005 (UTC)

Probably should have read this first - there were so many spelling errors I took it upon myself to fix them all. I think I got all of them, however there is a section which uses the word 'affliction' - I'm unsure as to whether that word is correctly used there or not, as I've never been a big fan of DS9 and haven't seen that particular episode. Anyway, I think I've caught most of them. Lukasa 21:10, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

Second name

Just a quick question, in wich episode is his second name Subatoi mentioned? Is it "Doctor Bashir, I Presume?"? Just wanna know. Thanks in advance for the info :) ~ Trent_Easton ~ talk 20:13, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

The episode in which Bashir's middle name is mentioned is "The Wire". --From Andoria with Love 21:06, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
Ah yes, thank you! :) ~ Trent_Easton ~ talk 10:16, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Cold-blooded murder?

I just reviewed "Crossover", in which Julian murders mirror Odo without much hesitation. Although forced by his situation aboard Terok Nor, I do think this act is severely out-of-character for our dear doctor at that point in time. Any thoughts? -- Bakabaka 14:41, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

I (one who'd know) would hardly call the young Doctor's deed cold-blooded, much less murder. The record indicates self-defense. "Do or die", so to speak. SwishyGarak 20:35, 6 August 2007 (UTC)
Good point. I hadn't seen mirror Odo reach for his phaser when I last saw the ep. Thanks! -- Bakabaka 09:17, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

Background clarification

The Background note about Bashir's supposedly changing age is flat wrong. Whatever the Emissary script might've said about Bashir being in his mid-twenties, the dialogue as aired gave his age as 27. Emissary was in early 2369, so Bashir's birth in 2341 is consistent as long as his birthday falls in the latter half of the calendar year. The dialogue couldn't be clearer. Sisko was ribbing Dax about flirting with Bashir. Sisko: "He's a little young for you, isn't he?" Dax: "He's 27; I'm 28." Sisko: "328, maybe." I think the Background note should be removed completely. Kentonindy 01:56, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

Well, by all means, let's do be bold, shan't we? I'll get to it. In fairness: While the original author might have had some information about the script specifying something that "warranted" what edit we could otherwise easily mistake for unmitigated nitpckery, all I know is what was said onscreen, which renders our canon nit-free after all. SwishyGarak 03:48, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

Jules vs. Julian

The article currently states that Jules was an affectionate nickname for Julian Bashir. That's not the impression I got from the episode, however. Julian not only shouts to his father that he stopped calling himself Jules when he was 15, but also that Jules Bashir died when he was 6 and that he is Julian. I have always interpreted this as a reference to Julian having changed his name (or at least adopted a different name to be addressed with) to distance himself from Jules, who did no longer exist after his genetic engineering. The dialogue seems to imply that Julian sees himself and Jules almost as two separate beings, each with its own name, which wouldn't really make sense if Jules was just a nickname that he'd been carrying for 9 more years after his treatments on Adigeon Prime. This is also supported by the fact that Julian himself refers to Jules Bashir as a full name, which doesn't make it sound like a nickname either. Any thoughts on this? -- Defstar 18:00, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

As I understood it, Jules is his real name. He didn't wanted to be called Jules anymore after he was genicly manipulated. Thet's why he tells his parent "Jules is dead! He died in that hospital!" ~ Trent_Easton ~ talk 06:24, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
That *may* be implied by the episode, however, "The Wire" equally implies that his name is actually Julian (his full name, "Julian Subatoi Bashir," is stated). Name change is still possible though, but a little odd for a fifteen-year-old to do for no statable reason (and his parents not heeding it).
The way I always saw it, was that "Jules" was the affectionate nickname given by Richie and Amsh-ie to their little Julian, and the grown-up genetically modified Julian identified the affection in the name with a time when they didn't expect amazing achievements from him (and worked him hard to accomplish those).--Tim Thomason 00:30, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
In my opinion, "The Wire" does not imply anything: it literally states that his name is Julian Subatoi Bashir. At that time. I don't think people have to defend themselves for wanting to change their name, nor does it make them overly suspicious. I also think we should take into account that in "Doctor Bashir, I Presume", Julian gives a direct connection between his discovery of having been genetically engineered and his subsequent name change (after he had found out what they had done to him). -- Defstar 20:11, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
On watching the episode the other day on Virgin 1, I certainly got the impression his birth name was "Jules [Subatoi?] Bashir", and he'd had it formally changed to "Julian Subatoi Bashir" when he was 15, rather than it being just a nickname. - SanityOrMadness 15:26, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
Jules is the diminuative of Julian, and diminuatives are often used in place of longer given names within families as the 'actual' name of a person. E.g. Many Jennifers will go by Jennie, Catherines by Cathy, Samuel by Sam, Timmothy by Tim etc even so far as to put this on job applications and official forms. In fallings out with parents during the teen years, its not uncommon for this familiar name to be discarded as a form of rebellion. This is not an official change of name, since what the person is doing is actually transferring their identity to their full official given name, rather than their familiar name. JB states that he "stoped calling *himself* Jules" at age 15. The key word is himself. Jules was the child, their son, the natural born human, given that his parents were uncomfortable calling him Julian, it can assumed they have always called him Jules, which he in turn would have called himself. The implication from the episode, at least to me, was that he made a concious decision to separate himself from this child he felt his parents had killed off by using his official full or paper name, Julian. 93.97.212.232 08:25, September 25, 2010 (UTC)

Apocrypha?

What no apocrypha for Bashir? How come? The preceding unsigned comment was added by 89.164.209.173 (talk).

Feel free to add some.– Cleanse talk 09:37, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

Subtle name reference?

I was wondering if anyone else thought it might be more than random chance that the genetically engineered character got the name "Julian," given that Julian Huxley was famous for his stance in supporting a Eugenics program? Is there any statement to confirm or reject such a suspicion? BocaJ 20:50, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

I don't believe DS9 ever mentioned the origin of the character's name. I'm not sure if there are any production materials which might state it.--31dot 21:12, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
As I've said elsewhere, fans give way too much credit to writers. It is nearly impossible that the writers intended from "Emissary" for Bashir to be genetically engineered. Remember that they didn't even have the series planned out with the Dominion War happening at all, and when it was finally suggested for season 5, it was only going to be a two episode arc. His name was almost 100% certainly not created with any intention of connection to a plot element that hadn't even been considered yet. --OuroborosCobra talk 21:22, 1 May 2008 (UTC)


While that hypothesis is unlikely, I did recently come across a middle ages legend of a Saint called Julian the Hospitaller. This saint spent his life in dedication to healing all manners of illness. I wondered if Bashir's name could be a reference to this person. Does anybody have any sources that could confirm this? Or even any thoughts on the matter? Thanks. 74.167.222.207 19:00, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
The DS9 Companion would be the source, and I'm guessing it doesn't say anything or one of the people here with it would have commented by now. I'm sure one of them might come along and correct me, though. I suppose it is possible (or at least more likely than the Eugenics one), since he obviously was intended to be a doctor the entire time. Still pretty slim, though. Remember also that "Bashir" indicates a Muslim background, as further evidenced by the choice in actor. --OuroborosCobra talk 19:05, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

Is Bashir an augment?

Since he is genetically upgraded, though he wasn't created as an embryo to be born as one. Vortaborg 05:38, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

Bashir and also the patients under Starfleets care (Jack, Sarina etc) are small-a augments (augmented humans), but not capital-A Augments (products of systematic political or experimental programs). The difference doesn't specifically have to do with the means of augmentation (pre-conception or post-natal) but with the association to specific Augment programs during the Eugenics Wars or Arik Soong's experiments. --TribbleFurSuit 19:17, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

Garak's implant

The DS9 section mentions Bashir saved Garak's life by removing the malfunctioning implant in his brain. That is not correct. Garak told Bashir that the implant could not be removed, so Bashir deactivated it instead, and helped Garak through the withdrawal symptoms. (DS9: The Wire) The implant remained in Garak's brain, presumably for the rest of his life. The article on Garak corroborates this. -Kalzekdor 10:29, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

Note on making Bashir genetically engineered

While I was adding Alexander Siddig's comments on the decision to make Bashir genetically engineered, I removed the following:

There has been a great deal of speculation among fans as to how far in advance of the episode "Doctor Bashir, I Presume" the writers knew that Bashir was genetically enhanced. Some fans suggested that the idea was developed while the character was introduced in the first season, and that they had found "clues" scattered throughout the earlier episodes. The reality of the situation is that making Bashir genetically engineered was a last minute decision.

I don't think it's terribly important what fans have or have not speculated about, especially since we know what actually happened behind the scenes. But just in case, I'm putting it here on the talk page. —Josiah Rowe 01:08, August 29, 2010 (UTC)

I think that this could be rewritten to something like:
There were questions as to how far in advance of the episode "Doctor Bashir, I Presume" the writers knew that Bashir was genetically enhanced. The reality of the situation is that making Bashir genetically engineered was a last minute decision.
I'm not sure that's quite right, but it's a good start I think. -- sulfur 01:46, August 29, 2010 (UTC)

But why do we need to say that there were questions at all? What's important is the answer, which we give: it was a last-minute decision. I know that to a certain extent the history of fandom is part of the history of Star Trek, and thus relevant here; but I don't see why it's important that after "Doctor Bashir, I Presume" aired, fans wondered/speculated about the timing of the decision to make the character genetically engineered. That's why I cut the wording back to "Making Bashir genetically engineered in "Doctor Bashir, I Presume" was a last-minute decision." —Josiah Rowe 02:13, August 29, 2010 (UTC)

Relationships

I saw that someone added a 'pda' voor the 'Relationships' title. I wrote some stuff. I'm sure I did a hell of a lot wrong, would somebody correct it/add to it and give some feedback here. Your help will be greatly appreciated! 86.84.66.210 19:18, November 3, 2012 (UTC)

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