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Talk:In a Mirror, Darkly, Part II (episode)

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Featured articleEdit

FAEdit

Self nomination. A page that I hope is accepted as a Defiant class article! Thanks to Shran for helping, particularly with the start of the summary. --Defiant | Talk 23:19, 29 Aug 2005 (UTC)

  • Support. You both did a great job with this one. It'll go nicely with the summary for Part I.--Scimitar 00:49, 30 Aug 2005 (UTC)
  • Strong Support. Excellent job, Defiant, as always! Oh, and you're welcome. ;) --From Andoria with Love 00:58, 30 Aug 2005 (UTC)
  • Suppot Tobyk777 23:14, 30 Aug 2005 (UTC)

FA removalEdit

Same introductory comment as above for this article, i.e. the "summary" section badly needs edited. --Defiant 23:43, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

  • Support: For reasons mentioned above: Too long, wordy and not really a summary. – Distantlycharmed 03:40, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
  • Conditional support of removal, unless the summary is shortened.--31dot 17:59, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
  • Conditional support of removal, unless the summary is shortened. --OuroborosCobra talk 16:46, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

FA IIEdit

  • - was previously featured, but removed (on my recommendation) as the summary was found to be too long. The summary is now much shorter and there is a lot more background info, as I've thoroughly investigated the making of the episode. There is still also background info from a variety of other users, including writer Mike Sussman himself. --Defiant 01:19, June 3, 2010 (UTC)--
  • Support. - Archduk3 19:38, June 5, 2010 (UTC)
  • Support, As with part I, impressively well documented and as with part I for future finetuning a listing of production staff is suggested.--Sennim 09:51, June 10, 2010 (UTC)
  • Support - another article that has been much improved and worthy of re-featuring.– Cleanse ( talk | contribs ) 04:18, June 15, 2010 (UTC)
  • Support. --Nero210 01:03, June 23, 2010 (UTC)
  • Support. Very well written and grammatically correct *STAMP OF APPROVAL*--Obey the Fist!! 19:59, June 23, 2010 (UTC)

Spoiler Alert Edit

I'm removing this quote:


"You are speaking to Empress Sato."

   - Hoshi Sato (mirror) 

It is too much of a spoiler. Gives away the whole fact of her betrayal which is so cooly revealed at the end of Part II, and as a quote is easy NOT TO avoid when causally scannng this Wiki.

I reverted your edit. For one thing, anything in a Trek episode that has already been shown in the U.S. is fair game here on Memory Alpha. For another, the information in Hoshi Sato (mirror) gives far more detailed information than this single quote does. And third, when the summary for this episode is completely written, it will include the fact that Hoshi declares herself empress anyway. So, there ya go. :) --From Andoria with Love 17:21, 19 Aug 2005 (UTC)

Except that it is easier to avoid reading the sysnopsis rather than a short, 6-word phrase.

Going, going, Gorn Edit

We need a picture of a Gorn in here somewhere.

I haven't seen the episode, but can anyone surmise what type of alien the actor Pat Healy portrays? Is it the Gorn? --Gvsualan 01:21, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I don't know if it was Pat Healy, but there was definitely a Gorn in the ep - it was mentioned by name as being a Gorn. (I think the Gorn's name was something like Srrral, but no idea on spelling.) --umrguy42 01:42, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)
By the looks of it, the Gorn was computer generated, unless an actor was used to help with the placement of it. -- Enzo Aquarius 03:05, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Pat Healy probably played the blue-skinned alien Archer interrogated. --Myko 17:27, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Confirmed, I was just looking over a portion of the script with the 'alien', it was, indeed, the blue-skinned alien that was being interogated. -- Enzo Aquarius 21:03, 6 May 2005 (UTC)

The Gorn slavemaster's name was Slar. And an actor (two in fact) did indeed help with the animation. --User:Sasoriza, May 05 2005


Our Favorite Star Trek Actress... Edit

Can anyone confirm it was Majel Barretts voice doing the Defiant's computer? I think so, but I don't want to put it in til' i'm sure. -AJHalliwell 01:09, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)

  • Sorry I can't really help, but I don't remember hearing the computer actually say anything, just make the usual bleeps and bloops and so forth. --umrguy42 01:11, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)
  • Captain (or commander, or emporer, or vulcan priest, I lose track) Archer and Hoshi were looking at their files in the 'other universe'. Basically all it said was "working". Still, if that was her, that means she'd have been on all 5 series. -AJHalliwell 01:55, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)
  • That definitely was Majel Barrett's voice. -- Enzo Aquarius 03:05, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)
  • It was. I saw it in the credits "Computer Voice - Majel Barret". --Zeromaru 14:00, 1 May 2005 (UTC)

Does this not make her the longest running role in Star Trek history, despite the fact that Paramount said Worf is? She has played the Role credited only as "Computer Voice" in 561 total episodes TOS (79 episodes) as the USS Enterprise NCC-1701, TNG (178 episodes) as the USS Enterprise NCC-1701– D DS9 (130) as the USS Defiant (both the NX-74205 and NCC-74205) Voyager (172) as the USS Voyager NCC-74656 Enterprise (2) as the USS Defiant NCC-1764

Worf has been in 282 episodes (178 TNG+104 DS9)

Didn't Majel Barret speak the Enterprise-E computer as well (or are we only talking about series here)? --Emissary77 17:38, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

The End? Edit

humm.. i am curious on how this episode ends... it almost seemed to be a continue, but wasn't indicated.. so i guess the story just sort of hangs like that in the 'mirror' world without any interferience, etc?? thank you :D 70.70.209.80 23:40, 9 May 2005 (UTC)

  • I bet if enterprise lasted longer, we would have returned to the mirror universe. (Personally, I fell in love with the new opening credits. Not the violence so much, but the music, and I love in a evil way when the Moon ship thing fires on the colony, so wasn't expecting that, lol) But we can assume she does indeed become empress, and it seems like the Terran empire fights off the rebellion, and reverse-engineers the defiant. Curiouse however, that a hundred years from then, their still using Defiant-like technology, huh? -AJHalliwell 23:46, 9 May 2005 (UTC)

Well not necessarily if Kirk's comments on wiping out life on Halkan are taken even semi literally.

Additionally, it looks like the Mirrorverse racked by internecine conflict even within a ship's corridors appears to advance marginally slower. Certainly the ISS Enterprise was not as advanced as you would expect humans to be with stolen Vulcan technology. Or the Klingon/Cardassian Empire later on being decimated by a single Defiant.

Teaser & Act One Edit

I have written the descriptions for this episode's teaser and its first act. However, this is a community effort, so I will leave the rest of the acts for someone else to finish. If they're not completed shortly, however, I will go ahead and finish it before moving on to "These Are the Voyages...". --From Andoria with Love 21:24, 19 Aug 2005 (UTC)

I lied; I went ahead and started "Voyages". I see no reason why I can't do two episodes at the same time. ;) --From Andoria with Love 19:22, 20 Aug 2005 (UTC)

Last Klaxon Use Edit

In the background information is the following fact:

  • This episode marks the first time the classic red alert klaxon, which was used throughout all of the classic Star Trek series and throughout Star Trek: The Next Generation, is used since DS9: "The Jem'Hadar", where it was used aboard the USS Odyssey.

However the klaxon sounds in DS9: "Waltz" aboard the USS Honshu. Is that the last use of it until this episode, or is there another afterwards? Hitaka 19:23, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

influence of novels Edit

From Background info--

"Phlox's speech comparing Shakespeare in the two universes was influenced by a passage in the non-canon novel "Dark Mirror", which Sussman read before writing the script. Additionally, author Diane Duane's decision to make the mirror version of Reginald Barclay the personal guard of Mirror Picard inspired Sussman to make Mayweather the chief bodyguard for Archer."

There seem to be other parallels to Diane Duane's novel here, such as their describing the agony booth as a form of "progress" and the use of slave races on starships. And the Empire's "inclusion device" in Dark Mirror becomes the Tholian tri-cobalt warhead that brings the Defiant into the MU.

First contact with Vulcans as a pivotal moment in history is also seen in the Shatner series, though it occurs differently here--Robert Treat 06:40, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Goof Edit

I think we should mention that:

When Dr. Phlox goes to use the hallway intercom to speak with T'Pol, he activates it by pressing its indicator light rather than the white button. This contradicts the wall intercom's normal operation as seen on the Original Series and an episode of Deep Space Nine, DS9: "Trials and Tribble-ations".

I am of the opinion that we should add it somewhere toward the end of this article; it was the most blatant goof I've ever seen and one that they shouldn't have let by (they obviously never actually WATCHED any TOS...grr). --Alex Munro 05:17, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

That sounds like it would be better on the intercom page, as it really has little to do with the production of this episode.--Tim Thomason 05:38, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Would you also call it a goof that Slar, the computer-animated Gorn, moved much faster than the "Arena"-Gorn? --Emissary77 17:44, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

The New Voyages Edit

Just a clarification on this bit of background info:

Since the cost of rebuilding it was too great, Paramount was loaned the conn from the internet fan series Star Trek: New Voyages.

Not really true. The TOS helm console, as well as the captain's chair, had been built by Herman Zimmerman's team for a museum attraction some time before. The set pieces were in storage at Paramount and dusted off for use in "In a Mirror, Darkly". The New Voyages people did help us out -- due to time and budget issues, our art department obtained the helm's "tactical viewscope" from New Voyages... just not the entire console. :) --Mike Sussman - VOY/ENT Writer-Producer 05:41, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the supporting clarification, Mike! (For the record, I fixed the article already...) :) Capt Christopher Donovan 08:42, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
I also added the info about the conn and its original purpose. Thanks, Mike! :) --From Andoria with Love 05:08, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

IT SOUNDS EXACTLY LIKE CAPTAIN KIRK Edit

When Archer is in the Avenger launch bay, addressing the crew, just after his line, "(and who are we to blame for this?)"

" NOT THE BRAVE MEN AND WOMEN WHO GAVE THEIR LIVES FOR THE EMPIRE "

That one line alone sounds exactly like it came out of Captain Kirk's mouth. I listened to it over & over & over again, and it convincingly sounds as it was dubbed in with Kirk's voice. (not that it was)


you have to give it a listen mjoshin125Mjoshin125 19:09, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

Archer and AvengerEdit

Something I don't remember if it was made to clear or not, but when Archer...'relieved' Admiral Black, did he assume command, or was it given to whomever had been next inline on Avenger? --Terran Officer 06:35, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

It was never directly stated, but Soval took command of Avenger after Black's murder, so presumably he was next in command. --From Andoria with Love 13:07, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

Nod to Wok? Edit

I'm wondering if this episode also makes a nod to Wrath of Kahn. When the defiant has been sabotaged, Archer orders Mayweather to get the shields back up with the command "Raise them!" just like Kahn does in Star Trek II (although Kahn says it when the shields drop, as opposed to after power has been restored). Also, the members of Kahn's crew took the uniforms of the Reliant's crew, just like the ISS Enterprise officers do here. Does anyone know of any support for these similarities being intentional? Twilder 15:21, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

I just watched Wrath of Khan, and his Augments did not wear Reliant uniforms. They wore their own clothes from Ceti Alpha V. - Mitchz95 20:27, September 19, 2011 (UTC)

Translation matrix Edit

During Archer's first contact with Slar, the Gorn "speaks" in growls and snarls that are somehow converted into a male, English computer voice (likely via a universal translator hidden in a communicator that Slar holds, during the scene).

If I understood Hoshi Sato correctly, she enabled the "translation matrix" when contacting the Gorn. This technology was apparently invented by Sato in the ordinary universe and seems to be the precursor of the Universal Translator used in the other series. What Sato enabled was probably actually the 23rd-century UT.

I'm new to ENT and haven't seen the DVD commentary this is based on, so I'll leave the article text until this can be researched further. Lastorset 10:48, July 28, 2010 (UTC)

I dont think i know how to edit one of these pages, so I will hope someone reads this and does it for me. Under ACT ONE : Hoshi Sato later arrives at the captain's quarters and is amused to find Archer proudly adorned in the dress uniform of the Defiant's former captain.

Clearly, Archer is wearing a casual duty uniform, not a dress uniform. The picture in the article clearly corroborates this.


Can someone please edit that, and perhaps include a link to CASUAL DUTY UNIFORMS?

204.99.118.9 23:05, August 17, 2012 (UTC)

DUTY UNIFORM CORRECTION Edit

I dont think i know how to edit one of these pages, so I will hope someone reads this and does it for me. Under ACT ONE : Hoshi Sato later arrives at the captain's quarters and is amused to find Archer proudly adorned in the dress uniform of the Defiant's former captain.

Clearly, Archer is wearing a casual duty uniform, not a dress uniform. The picture in the article clearly corroborates this.


Can someone please edit that, and perhaps include a link to CASUAL DUTY UNIFORMS?

204.99.118.9 23:05, August 17, 2012 (UTC)

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