insignia images included on rank pages Edit
Anyone thought about including the rank insignia images on the pages for that particular rank? I'm thinking something along the lines of:
| Ensign rank insignia|
of the Earth Starfleet
| Starfleet Ensign rank|
insignia of the 2270s
| Starfleet Ensign rank insignia|
of the 2280s-2350s
| Starfleet Ensign rank insignia|
of the 2350s-present
| Starfleet provisional Ensign rank|
insignia of the 2350s-present
| Starfleet Ensign rank insignia|
of the 29th century
Is there a reason Ensign Lynch from First contact isn't listed under Ensigns?
- That's a list of "notable ensigns", comprised primarily of regular and recurring ensign characters. For a (more) complete list, see Starfleet ensigns. --From Andoria with Love 22:18, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
Branches of serviceEdit
In the background/special features section of the Star Trek: The Next Generation DVD set actor Wil Wheaton stated that he had received Roddenberry's "gold ensign bars" from World War II; however, since Roddemberry's service was in the Army Air Corps, and not the Navy, Wheaton was in fact presented with the insignia from the wrong branch of service.
Considering its been very much established that Star Fleet isn't the American, nor the British Navies, and that Gene Roddenberry wasn't ever a member of Star Fleet, I would think that this reference to Wil Wheaton being presented with insignia from the "wrong branch of service" to be entirely redundant, and unnecessary. It would still have been the "wrong branch of service", even if it'd been a Navy second Lieutenants bars. Anything else is being questionably anal.Hossrex 10:44, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
- There is no such thing as a Navy Second Lieutenant. The point is that he was receiving something that isn't Ensign, but an equivalent. --OuroborosCobra talk 10:50, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
(Edit Conflict) Point is he got 2nd Lt bars and then said on the DVD that he had gotten ensign bars. I guess he wasn't presented with the wrong insignia, just mistook the insignia be received for the wrong branch of service. A rewording might be in order. -FleetCaptain 10:52, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
- I wasn't trying to be a dick. A rewording was all I was thinking of... I simply wanted to bring this to discussion, instead of altering the page... which I would have personally considered to be much more of a jerky thing to do.Hossrex 10:56, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
- Yes, indeed. A rewording seems to be in order. Good point. -FleetCaptain 10:57, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
This gives rise to the possibility that Starfleet, much like the United States Navy, has commissioning programs for prior enlisted personnel or for civilian doctors and scientists who wish to join Starfleet.
I'm not sure this even needs to be in the background section... or at least not phrased in such an unsure manner. I'm fairly certain there was an episode where someone had asked Obrien if he'd ever considered taking an officers training course... or officers test... or something like that (I'm paraphrasing from a very old memory). He said something to the effect of not having any interest in doing all those functions, and special duties that officers are stuck with (even though it seems like he's always at them, and doing them). Even if my memory is way off... I know this was an episode. can anyone help jog my memory for which it may have been? Hossrex 22:21, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
- Since the above statement is not misleading or untrue, I see no reason why it should be cut from the article. In fact, its very good information and explains why we saw ensigns in TNG: "Pen Pals" who were in thier mid 40s and obviously not recent academy grads. As far as your question, I dont recall the exact episode, but O'Brien remarked that he stayed enlisted so that he didnt have to attend high level ceremonial functions. Never has O'Brien made a statement in any series that he could have taken an officer test or anything of that nature. If he had, you can bet it would be mentioned here since that would be a huge piece to his backstory (I actually just wrote a major section on the Miles O'Brien page discussing this very subject). -FleetCaptain 23:25, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
No no no no no... what I meant was, I think there is direct canon evidence for this information. I meant it shouldn't be in the "background" section, because I think it should be in an area for things more directly stated. I just think the uncertainty of the phrasing should be removed, not the statement. -- Hossrex 05:34, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
- Then, to answerr your other question, there has never been any mention in Star Trek of an extra-commissioning program outside of Starfleet Academy. In fact, the producers have gone out of thier way to make us believe the Academy is the ONLY way to become an officer. This creates a problem with the ensign in their late 30s and early 40s that we see, but it might be explained that one can remain an ensign for many...many' years unlike the real U.S. Navy where you get promoted after 2 years or you're out after four. So, the answer is no. No mention of other commissioning programs except for the Academy. Hope that clears it all up. -FleetCaptain 19:37, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
With reference to the statement "No mention of other commissioning programs except for the Academy" - surely this is not strictly true as Wesley Crusher was an officer before attending the Academy due to Picard giving him a field commission. This would suggest a Captain can grant field commissions to anyone deemed to have the skills required. Although I'll admit that Picard might not, and probably wouldn't, have done it if he thought Wesley wasn't going to attend the Academy...Caducus 23:25, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
minimal time of service before promotion Edit
Has it ever been directly stated or only hinted at how long a Starfleet officer has to serve in the rank of Ensign until he can be put up for promotion to Lieutenant Junior Grade? In the Wikipedia article on the rank of ensign it says three years, but I was wondering if anyone could verify that.
Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ensign_%28rank%29#United_Federation_of_Planets Bell'Orso 22:00, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
- I can't think of anything stating a regulation time-in-grade for Starfleet. The most likely place to have found information on the promotion requirements from Ensign would be TNG: "Lower Decks" (which dealt with three ensigns, all candidates for one promotion slot). In that episode, there is the following:
- PICARD: "The incident you were involved in at the Academy."
- SITO: "With all due respect... that was three years ago. My record since then --"
- That is referring to the events of Sito Jaxa's participation in the cover-up of the incident leading to the death of a fellow cadet in "The First Duty". So, all we really know from that is that an officer with a really big black mark on her record was not a candidate for promotion beyond ensign for three years. I'd say we honestly don't really know the time-in-grade requirements, and that Wikipedia is speculating too much. --OuroborosCobra talk 22:53, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
I removed the added note about how to pronounce the word "ensign" since no other military rank article, not even alien ones like Legate, list pronunciation. Not saying its wrong to have it, just that a standard policy should be developed before randomly adding it to articles. Personally, I think its not needed. Comments from others? -FleetCaptain 22:06, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
- I agree that it is not needed.--31dot 22:13, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
Duties and responsibilities Edit
I just wanted to toss my two cents in on the area of this article which speaks about O'Brien having "personal Authority" over Officers.
Presuming that Starfleet continues to use many traditions and "real world vs the book" type situations, I can tell you that what it says actually does happen in the Armed Forces.
While I was still active in the Reserves (Here in Canada that is!) I was on a secondment to an Artillery Regiment as a newly commissioned 2LT. I was immediately given the Position of Training Officer due to Staff Shortages. This gave me "positional" authority over two other Captains in my Unit; I was the Department Head and even though they both outranked me, their Positions were subordinate to mine.
Further, as the Training Officer, I was paired with a Warrant Officer, (The Training NCO) who as an NCO was my subordinate, but he had been in the Forces almost as long as I had been alive. Thus, while I did outrank him, his years of experience made it a no brainer to listen to every word he had to say.
Now, never once did I hand an actual "Order" to the Captains I had working for me. Everything I had them do for me was a "Request that you can't refuse." And it was the same with the Warrant Officer; He would often give me requests I wouldn't refuse. I was never Ordered to do anything from him, but I knew better than to ignore his "advice". Larsiam 10:46, February 22, 2010 (UTC)