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Talk:Commodore Hornblower

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Moved from Talk:C.S. ForesterEdit

While the text excerpt from "Commodore Hornblower" was seen on screen, the name of the author wasn't, nor was he ever mentioned. This article therefore shouldn't exist, or does anyone have a source for the mention of C.S. Forester? --Jörg 21:47, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Well is he the author? I think this falls into a similiar "gray area" as F-15, which was only identified by visual identification, which is based on our identification of it, not any written or verbal identification shown "on screen", like the Stuka. --Alan del Beccio 22:01, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
It seems to me that keeping articles due to their associations is bad practice. If we keep this we could just as easily defend writing articles on a book's publishers, editors, etc. Jaf 22:45, 17 December 2006 (UTC)Jaf
My rationale for creating this article was two-fold: first, the Horatio Hornblower linked to "The Visitor" (an existing article), as well as to Commodore Hornblower and C.S. Forester, neither of which existed at the time. Thus, it was simple housekeeping that led to the creation of the page. The second, and more germane, reason for keeping this article is the importance of Forester to the canon. Without Hornblower (and more to the point, his author), there is no Star Trek. Having Jake Sisko read Hornblower is both a subtle self-reference as well as a statement about Jake's character and the choices he makes when he loses his father to an alternate timeline. The alternative, of course, is to have background reference to Forester incorporated in the Commodore Hornblower article (see Talk:Commodore Hornblower for an example). --GNDN 00:16, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
In most other cases, we simply place a wikipedia link (C.S. Forester) in place of where the an internal link would be. See Celsius, for example. --Alan del Beccio00:27, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Exactly, and that is what should be done with this page, as there is no reference to the author in any episode. I remember when we had to delete the Hornblower page, because there was no canon mention, just the background info about Gene basing his characters on Horatio. When the PADD with the text excerpt was found however, we were luckily able to include all that information on its own page. This should be enough and we don't realy need a C.S. Forester page. We could just as well create pages for all the composers of classical music whose pieces were heard in Trek, but were never mentioned by name, Felix Mendelssohn, Erik Satie or Vincenzo de Crescenzo for example. --Jörg 09:52, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Actually, we have Erik Satie for example. So, I guess if it's consensus we'd have to go through the Authors/Musicians/Artists categories and recheck if the artists were really named or we just saw/heard their work. Kennelly 11:42, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
Perhaps I belabor the point, but The Day the Earth Stood Still cites a lot of information that did not come from any ENT episode, including the release date and the director. Further, the talk page to Horatio Hornblower shows that a significant fragment of Commodore Hornblower is shown on-screen, such that it would really be stretching Hodgkin's Law to think anyone other than Forester wrote it. That said, I've already submitted my alternative solution for your joint consideration. Given that we are engaged in an effort to create a unique and self-sufficient research work, I prefer this alternative to a bare Wikipedia link. --GNDN 13:29, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
That's a big step from making pages. Besides, if you were to ask me who lead India in the 90s, I wouldn't tend to answer that it was Khan. Hodgkins law or not, the trek univ;erse is off from ours. Gwar 15:55, 18 December 2006 (UTC)Gwar

The problem is not stating that it was written by C.S. Forester, I'm sure it was also written by him in the Star Trek universe, so mentioning him in the Horatio Hornblower or Commodore Hornblower article is no problem at all. This is about creating a page for C.S. Forester which is not okay, as he was not mentioned in dialogue and his name was not displayed on a list of authors or something similar. That is why his page has to go, information about him having written those works is no problem at all. Like on the pages for A Woman Holding a Balance and The Concert it is mentioned that those pictures were painted by Vermeer, but he doesn't get his own page. --Jörg 16:04, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

If C.S. Forester is deleted Edit

This is my suggestion if the author's page is deleted:

Commodore Hornblower was a novel contained on Jake Sisko's PADD in 2372. (DS9: "The Visitor") Later that year, he was reading the same text excerpt again, when he met the muse Onaya. (DS9: "The Muse")

Background Edit

Commodore Hornblower, (or The Commodore, as it is known in Great Britain) was written in the mid-20th century by C.S. Forester. It recounted the adventures of Royal Navy Captain Horatio Hornblower in the Baltic Rim during the latter-portion of the Napoleonic Wars. Hornblower, of course, was the basis of the protagonist of Gene Roddenberry's initial proposal for Star Trek.

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