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Talk:Burns and Allen

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Uh, excuse me. George Burns, alone, is never mentioned in Star Trek. The only references are to the comedy team of Burns and Allen. Your alterations are unwarranted. Although Frank Gorshin did George Burns impressions, it hardly merits it's own article...a footnote to Burns and Allen, at best. Please revert. Thank You.--Mike Nobody 22:29, 3 Dec 2005 (UTC)
  • I'm afraid not. They, as individuals (they are individuals, afterall) have just as much right to have their own articles, as any other individual on here. --Alan del Beccio 12:43, 4 Dec 2005 (UTC)

What is it with these double-standards regarding contributions and canon?--Mike Nobody 13:22, 4 Dec 2005 (UTC)

Wha--? Burns and Allen... George and Gracie. Obviously seperate individuals. Unless Data and Gillian Taylor were referring to the title of books or an interception of two streets? :P --From Andoria with Love 13:27, 4 Dec 2005 (UTC)
  • What double standards? With the exception of the Bloom sisters (and probably other similar vague references)-- George Burns and Gracie Allen were two different people who can be readily indentified in a manner that goes beyond the name of their "act. --Alan del Beccio 13:36, 4 Dec 2005 (UTC)
    • Burns and Allen, Abbot and Costello, Amos and Andy, whatever. They are an identifiable "team" with an identity seperate from their individual selves. I mean, really, what's so hard about that? Are we going to write about "The Six Stooges" next, individually?--Mike Nobody 13:43, 4 Dec 2005 (UTC)
  • Do you have a pressure gauge, Mike, cos I'm sure its pretty much set to explode! No, seriously, cool it... its only a website, afterall. As for my contribution to this conversation, the only pair of people article we have, as far as I can tell, is Ah-Kel and Ro-Kel, mostly because they're actually almost one lifeform. Zsingaya Talk 13:50, 4 Dec 2005 (UTC)
  • You need to back off on the attitude, friend. If you haven't noticed, Burns and Allen is still its own article, referencing the two individuals in the act: George Burns and Gracie Allen -- as the name of the act clearly indicates. The fact that Burns and Allen exists, in addition to the two articles on the individuals involved in the act (as they were identified by name), I really see no reason to continue making an issue out of this-- and really, should be the least of your concerns. On a side note, in regards to The Three Stooges, only Moe is mentioned on this site because he is the only one identified by name. --Alan del Beccio 13:51, 4 Dec 2005 (UTC)

=Edit

Burns and Allen were an American comedy duo consisting of George Burns and his wife, Gracie Allen.
Burns wrote most of the material, and played the straight man. Allen played a silly, addleheaded woman. Both attributed their success to the other, to the ends of their lives. Early on, the team had played the opposite roles until they noticed that the audience was laughing at Gracie's straight lines, so they made the change.
Burns and Allen developed their popular routine over more than three decades of stage, radio, film, and television. Historians of popular culture have often stated that Allen was a brilliant comedian, whose entire career consisted of engaging in dialogues of "illogical logic" that left her verbal opponents dazed and confused, and her audiences in stitches. During a typical 23-minute episode of the Burns and Allen show, the vast majority of the dialogue and speaking parts were written for Allen, who was credited with having the genius to deliver her lengthy diatribes in a fashion that made it look as though she was making her arguments up on the spot. (One running gag on the TV show was the existence of a closet full of hats belonging to various visitors to the Burns household, where the guests would slip out the door unnoticed, leaving their hats behind, rather than face another round with Gracie.)
A continuing joke on the show was that George would say, "Say good night, Gracie," and Gracie would say, "Good night Gracie!" Ralph Pape used the catchphrase for the title of his play, Say Goodnight, Gracie, produced by Steppenwolf in 1983, and the phrase lives on as a title of other books and stage productions.
Burns would always ended the show with "say goodnight Gracie" to which Allen simply replied "Goodnight". She never said "Goodnight Gracie" as legend has it (this "false memory" may be caused by the Laugh-In ending, "Say goodnight, Dick;" "Goodnight, Dick!"). This information came from watching hours of Burns & Allen shows and from George Burns' book Gracie: A Love story. Gracie Allen has been nominated to the National Women's Hall of Fame but so far has not been selected for induction.

The joke is a part of a collaborative sketch with both persons. One without the other would be as meaningless as Lou Costello reciting the "Who's on first?" routine by himself. That would make him "Rainman", not "Abbot and Costello". Please cite the correct reference,--Mike Nobody 05:00, 5 Dec 2005 (UTC)

You'll also notice that Wikipedia also has seperate articles for George Burns and Gracie Allen. So, what is your point, exactly? --From Andoria with Love 05:03, 5 Dec 2005 (UTC)
  • To make "noise." --Alan del Beccio 05:21, 5 Dec 2005 (UTC)
    • The point is, that although George Burns and Gracie Allen can have their own individual subject page, it is inappropriate for the bulk of the information to be credited on each of their pages, when the references from "The Outrageous Okona" and Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home are made to the comedy team of "Burns and Allen", and not either George Burns or Gracie Allen. At most, Burns' subject would be that he was a part of Burns and Allen and (as background info) Frank Gorshin did impresions of him. Crediting Burns "or" Allen with the "Say Goodnight Gracie" gag is untrue and not canon anyway. Elementary logic. Mike Nobody

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