This is a page to discuss the suggestion to delete "Crossdressing".
- If you are suggesting a page for deletion, add your initial rationale to the section "Deletion rationale".
- If you want to discuss this suggestion, add comments to the section "Discussion".
- If a consensus has been reached, an administrator will explain the final decision in the section "Admin resolution".
In all cases, please make sure to read and understand the deletion policy before editing this page.
Deletion rationale[]
Crossdressing isn't mentioned in any episode. Skants have never been shown or mentioned to be a chiefly female uniform. Ferengi women don't wear clothes, so Quark's "effeminite" clothing in "Profit and Lace" could not be crossdressing. Pel's, Ishka's, and "Lumba's" clothe-wearing may constitute crossdressing, however, it was not identified as such and is stretching the definition some.--Tim Thomason 22:15, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
Discussion[]
- Delete. I believe Skants were described as a 'unisex' outfit, neither male or female, thus wearing one cannot be crossdressing. Certainly there is nothing to base any assertion about the legality of crossdressing on. The passage about Pel is not really encyclopedia-like. 31dot 01:15, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
- Delete. Created by a sock puppet anyways. --OuroborosCobra talk 01:38, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
- Strong Keep, but delete the reference to "legality" and "Starfleet's position on the matter". Possibly rename to, or at least redirect from, Transvestism. While I'll admit, it's not a subject of any clear canonical importance to the Federation, the Ferengi cases are pretty irrefutable examples of crossdressing. What's more, if this database be one supposedly written from the perspective of editors at the end of Star Trek time, then we cannot ignore the impact of transvestism on the development of Ferengi culture. The rationale that "Ferengi women don't wear clothes, so Quark's 'effiminate' clothing in "Profit and Lace" could not be crossdressing" belies a fundamental misunderstanding of the episode. The whole point of the story is that Quark's crossdressing ultimately gives Ferengi women the right to wear clothes. By proving Zek right to the ultra-conservative Slug-O-Cola manufacturer — through "Lumba" — the recently-deposed Grand Nagus gets his post back, and with it, confirms the policy for which he'd been thrown out of office. Quark's crossdressing ultimately serves as the Ferengi equivalent of "bra-burning" on Earth. Crossdressing is confirmed in the episode, as it was in "Rules of Acquisition", to be an important element in the freeing of Ferengi women from the shackles of naked, profitless life. (Yeah, yeah, I know:. All you haters of "Profit and Lace" and "Ferengi episodes" of DS9 just rolled your collective eyeballs.) CzechOut ☎ | ✍ 15:01, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
Discussion of major re-write[]
The article was entirely re-written today, along the lines suggested in my vote to keep, above. I would suggest that the above votes no longer apply to the article as it stands and a new round of voting be entered into. CzechOut ☎ | ✍ 05:32, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
- Neutral. The article is certainly much improved, and well written. I would wonder whether or not it needs a seperate article when these things could be mentioned on the Ferengi history page, but I don't out-and-out oppose this page. 31dot 13:23, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
- Definitely move most of the current content to Ferengi history, if anywhere. All of that is only very tangentially related to "cross-dressing", and the importance of the events itself seriously blown out of proportion. What's left would be a dictionary definition of the term, which, I think would not be worth keeping. -- Cid Highwind 14:32, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
- A counterveiling argument might be that keeping it in place, with some solid Star Trek content, might prevent other anon users from starting the article up again as it first appeared. Also, I think the article usefully establishes that it's not a common practice outside the FA, something you couldn't really do from within the FA article. That is, having an article about cross-dressing, which has redirects from several different words, lets users know this is the extent to which the Star Trek universe deals with the subject. It'll be the first thing that pops up in a search engine, whereas it wouldn't if buried in a Ferengi history article. It's also a place you can point to from other related articles, like Sexuality. There's an extent to which you could do that with some long link like [[Ferengi Alliance#24th Century History#Women's Liberation Movement]], but I'm not quite sure why that'd be preferable.
- Definitely move most of the current content to Ferengi history, if anywhere. All of that is only very tangentially related to "cross-dressing", and the importance of the events itself seriously blown out of proportion. What's left would be a dictionary definition of the term, which, I think would not be worth keeping. -- Cid Highwind 14:32, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
- Also, the number of short stubs about really obscure subjects on MA argues against length as a rationale for deleting an article. Cross-dressing, though not named, was the central plot element of two episodes in DS9. Surely it deserves equal consideration with things that were briefly mentioned but never seen, like the W.E.B. DuBois, The Wages of Fear and body-surfing CzechOut ☎ | ✍ 05:21, 5 October 2007 (UTC)