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The discussion below regards the use of images from Star Trek: The Magazine and is posted here for future reference. --From Andoria with Love 04:39, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

Moved from Files for deletion Edit

File
Aeroshuttle.jpg:

This is a non-canon image. It seems to be a scanned image from the Star Trek Magazine, which as I understand it is not allowed. I remember that being the problem with previous image deletions, unfortunetly there seems to not be an archive of those discussions for me to reference. I also feel there is no reason for a non-canon image. We have canon ones (they may not be good, but they are canon). --OuroborosCobra talk 00:25, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

Uh, as far as I know there is no such thing as a "canon" image of the aeroshuttle. It never actually appeared in any episode (except for the external detailing on Voyager's hull that represented it's ventral side. I've got some good quality renders posted by Rob (Ron?) Bouchune made from the model he developed (just in case) while still at Foundation that he posted on the Starshipbuilder Forums awhile back if that will help... EDIT I just looked at the image and that is one OF those images (that RB posted), if I'm not mistaken. It's about as "canon" as you're going to get, I'm afraid...Capt Christopher Donovan 09:55, 26 August 2006 (UTC)editedCapt Christopher Donovan 09:59, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

I don't think "as canon as you are going to get" is good enough, it either is canon or it isn't. Besides, there is File:VOY partial MSD.jpg and File:Aeroshuttle future tense.jpg. Granted, they are not as good, but they are actual canon shots, from on screen, and not from the Magazine. --OuroborosCobra talk 19:20, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

I'm going to respectfully disagree. This is the model they WOULD HAVE USED if they ever did an ep with the Aeroshuttle in it, the official Foundation Imagaing mesh. Just because they never used it doesn't make it any less official and canon in my mind. I feel also that this non-screen aired, but official image is a better depiction of the craft in question than some screen-aired but visually limited and uninformative partially seen schematic.Capt Christopher Donovan 23:44, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

Actually, the biggest problem I have with this is that it is from the Star Trek: The Magazine. As past image deletion discussions have said (sadly they are not archived on MA, something I intend to propose they start doing), scans from the magazine do not seem to fall under "fair use". That is the primary reason I am nominating this here. --OuroborosCobra talk 23:48, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

After doing some checking, I find that that image is NOT an exact image from Rob's post at Hobbytalk.com after all...I apologize for the inconvenience. I amend my vote to DELETE, and will download from the other site an image that CAN be posted under "Fair Use".Capt Christopher Donovan 00:11, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

I went searching through the change history for this page, and I found relevent discussions for images that were deleted just for being from a published source, namely Star Trek: The Magazine. I have "archived" these discussions in my user subpage at User:OuroborosCobra/PageII#Image Deletion Discussions. Please take a look. --OuroborosCobra talk 00:06, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

  • I still think it is a relevant background image, regardless if it made it into an episode footage or not. Additionally, Star Trek: Magazine had to get it from somewhere, so their acquisition and use of an image coming from a paramount source still falls under the same copyright rules as we use. --Alan del Beccio 15:41, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
  • Image was deleted since there was one additional vote for delete and no votes for keep. However, I see this is still in debate, so I've saved the image to my hard drive for possible future uploading. Also, this discussion should probably be moved somewhere (i.e. Ten Forward) for future reference. --From Andoria with Love 16:38, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
    • re:OC ... the magazine did in fact get images from unused footage in the past -- the Voyager effects artists have mentioned in interviews that they created test footage of the Aeroshuttle in flight to present to the powers that be (were). we would need to confirm which images came from test footage and find a citation so we could claim it was fair use, but there are valid sources for this material. -- Captain M.K.B. 09:02, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
    • re:Cid ... Is it still fiar use if the only time the test footage was published was in the magazine? How would it be different than using a cgi model made for the magazine? or a drawing for that matter? --OuroborosCobra talk 10:17, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
      • iterjecting, i guess in this case, behind the scenes test footage published only in the magazine would be a coup for the magazine -- they own the rights for publishing it, no one else. However, if the images were ever recorded onto DVD and sold with Voyager collection, reproducing them would be in the realm of our "fair use" mandate -- reproducing frames of an available recording. -- Captain M.K.B. 13:43, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

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